I didn't know that God is codependent, that he gets satisfaction out of controlling people, places and things.
 
I thought he created the world and all things and then created man to take dominion over his creation. He created the world with a natural order of things and created man with a free will to take dominion over all things. I find it hard to believe he is directing the world like a bunch of puppets, starting wars, famines, droughts, diseases and pestilence. Those all come from man interfering with the natural order of things, or evolution as some people prefer to call it.
 
The Old Testament writers were human just as we are, writing as they saw it. They certainly didn't know as much as we do today and that certainly isn't very much when it comes to understanding God and his creation.
Anyone that blames god for starting wars and sexual diseases needs to look in the mirror.
 
Grandpa13

Nice message and thought, "grandpa".. N-O-T!! -- In the course of 'dissing' the inspired authenticity of the Bible, {see, below} and implying that I 'blame God' for "wars & sexual diseases".. {where did your latter reference come from{?!}.. certainly, Not from my Own posts!}... you succeeded in throwing-out an important tenet{sp?} of Christianity!
 
Source reference? {would that I remembered or wrote it down; but, it IS a result, of having 'googled' the following Bible passage!}
 
2 Timothy 3:16
Note: 'All Scripture is inspired,' and Not, some of Scripture!
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
1. All Scripture is inspired by God
1. Inspired by God, not man.
1. God chose to work through the agency of His people.
2. Not a committee, not casting beads.
1. There is a committee called the Jesus seminar. It is supposed to be full of scholars. They cast beads to determine which of the sayings of Jesus are authentic. Such foolishness.
3. Inspiration is from God's heart and His mind to the writers.
1. "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" {Matt. 12:34}
2. Because it comes from God it cannot be anything else except pure, accurate, truthful, helpful, etc.
4. Man has attempted his own form of inspired Scripture.
1. Christian Science: "Mind is the source of all movement, and there is no inertia to retard or check its perpetual and harmonious action. Mind is the same Life, Love, and wisdom "yesterday, and today, and forever." Matter and its effect--sin, sickness, and death--are states of mortal mind which act, react, and then come to a stop. They are not facts of Mind. They are not ideas, but illusions. Principle is absolute. It admits of no error, but rests upon understanding" {Science and Health p. 283}.
2. Mormonism: "And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the faith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them" {1 Nephi 16:28}.
1. "For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do {2 Nephi 25:23}.
3. Krishna: "One who works in devotion, who is pure soul, and who controls his mind and senses is dear to everyone, and everyone is dear to him. Though always working, such a man is never entangled," {Bhagavad-Gita, p. 281}.
5. These words of men are neither accurate nor truthful. Therefore, they are not to be trusted.
2. The Word of God is inspired so that you might trust it to be accurate when you...
1. TEACH
1. To teach you must know what is right.
2. You can't teach if you don't know what is right.
3. Therefore you must study.
1. Read the Bible on your own, attend church, fellowship with other believers, attend Bible study, have devotions, pray, etc.
2. Learn about the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the resurrection, salvation by grace, the consequence of sin, hell, heaven, the return of Christ, etc.
2. The Word of God is inspired so that you might trust it and be accurate when you...REBUKE
1. To rebuke means that scold and correct in a sharp way.
2. To urge someone to stop sinning:
1. believer
1. Perhaps a Christian is in sin. You are to warn him.
2. Rebuked at a Kenneth Copeland convention.
2. unbeliever
1. Perhaps an unbeliever is not aware of his sin; therefore, you offer correction, warning, or admonition.
1. i.e., Anti Abortion rally
3. The Word of God is inspired so that you might trust it and be accurate when you...CORRECT
1. To correct here means to restore to an upright or right state with the improvement of life or character.
2. You can correct erring doctrines or understanding or even bad interpretations of scripture
3. You can even correct yourselves when you examine the Word and discover any errors you may have in understanding or practice.
1. Christian Research Institute is involved with that
2. Spiritual Counterfeits Project is too.
4. The Word of God is inspired so that you might trust it and be accurate when you...TRAIN IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
1. This includes the training and education of children.
1. My wife and I are raising up Rachael in a biblical Child rearing program.
2. This includes the cultivation of mind and morals.
1. As saved sinners, we are in constant need of training. We must hear the Word, study it, and apply it.
2. Training implies that it is something that is done over and over with the aim at improvement.
5. These four things: Teaching, Correcting, Rebuking, and Training in Righteousness are each outward as well as inward. We are active in each of them.
3. The inspired Word of God is there for you also, so that you might be able to do Good Works.
1. It is part of the calling: To do Good.
1. Before being a Christian, you could not do good.
2. Now you can do good. "For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life" {1 Thess. 4:7}.
2. It is only because of the Cross of Christ, because of His shed blood that you even attempt to do anything that is good.
1. You do good to glorify Jesus, not simply for the sake of doing good.
3. Examples of doing good:
1. Feeding the poor; visiting the sick; praying for those who are lost, hurting, or in need; baking cookies for Bible study; visiting prisoners; taking care of widows; supporting a church; taking food to a sick person; sending cards when someone has suffered a loss, etc.
1. "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do" {Ephesians 2:10}.
4. Good works are a manifestation of what you know and believe.
1. That is why the Scriptures are there to Teach, Correct, Rebuke, and Train. The Word of God is your guide to that which is right, pure, holy, and truthful.
2. So that you might believe that which is true, not false, and in truth, accurately do that which is pleasing in the sight of God, to His glory.
5. There is no other source of inspiration on earth.
 
Conclusion:
God has given you the inspired Bible so that you will be able to accurately know that which is good, true, and holy. So that you might know the mind and will of God. So that you might teach, Correct, Rebuke, and Train in Righteousness...and this so that your work might be good in the sight of God.

Did you switch your breath mints and you medication again? What makes you think Gramp's post was about you?
 
Do you hear voices? Do you think people are out to get you?
 
--SoCo

You are missing my point. I am not as you say 'dissing' the inspired authenticity of the Bible. You have heard it said, "Figures don't lie but liars figure." The Bible with out doubt is authentic and inspired by God. But the people that read and interpret it are inspired by there own opinion and will lie to defend it.
 
All your googled sources and references are nothing but so called experts opinions. By referencing their opinions you are implying that God is to blame for wars diseases etc.
 
Ignoring all the googled articals ideas and opinions, what are your own opinions on this subject?
 
Grandpa13

I'm sure this is good.
I'm sure I'd have something to say if I had the time.
I'm sure I'd likely find an angle of disagreement.
I'm sure you are already aware of that.
I'm sure...
 
Cheers
IBIJ

'grandpa' said: "You have heard it said, "Figures don't lie but liars figure." The Bible with out doubt is authentic and inspired by God. But the people that read and interpret it are inspired by there own opinion and will lie to defend it.
 
'HoM's reply: Thanks for putting me in your same generic 'doghouse' as 'IBIJ,' whom we Both take issue with! Might not Some of those who interpret the Bible, or see fit, to 'cut & paste' those that do, Not have an ulterior motive?!; or at least, sincerely believe that the only thing that they're 'guilty' of, is to inform, a by & large Scripturally ignorant, public-at-large?!
 
.. On that basis, I can even see how 'IBIJ' has a 'bad rap'!... ie. in the course of sometimes 'telling-it-like-it-is,' {which most Always, is a subjective matter}, people often perceive that their 'toes,' and/or 'sacred cows' are {figuretively} being stepped on, and they get upset! {I never thought that I could have empathy in that sense, with 'IBIJ'!; while still holding to the belief that much of his belief-system has a cult-like 'spin,' to it! ..{such is Life!}

"grandpa" said: All your googled sources and references are nothing but so called expert's opinions. By referencing their opinions, you are implying that God is to blame for wars, diseases etc.
 
'Hom's reply: And that's Your opinion, I would suggest! ..ie. inferring that therefore, "God is to blame for wars"; and I Still can't figure out how you came up with "diseases".. sexual, or otherwise, in that same 'God-blaming,' misperceived, false charge{?!}
.. Anyway, people will be debating back-and-forth, as to how Divine pre-destination {in all of its major & minor aspects}, correlates to our human free-will, to the End-of-Time; and maybe, then some!?

"grandpa" said: Ignoring all the googled articles', ideas and opinions, what are your own opinions on this subject?
 
'HoM's reply: D-u-h?!.. Might not a logical inference, be that, I agree with an opinion that I see fit to 'copy & paste'{?}.. since, such Is the case!!
 
Furthermore, I've noticed "grandpa," that apparently one of your favorite sayings is that, "figures lie, and liars figure." Might not that somewhat harsh observation, if applied 'across-the-board,' be a logical end-result from so many things in life, being subjective, or opinion-based?!

Correction: "Figures DON'T lie, but liars figure." Thats not saying all people that figure are liars.
 
The same goes for the Bible, there is no doubt that it is Gods true word, but it is subject to poeple that translate and interpret it to fit their own agenda or doctrine or whatever. They write and publish their articles to suit their own understanding and then claim it is the true word of God. As I have said before, 'The bible is a book of Inspiration, a book of History and a book of Literature. it is not a book of scientific facts. In my opinion no human being can explain God and his creation.
 
Religion is Faith and Belief not scientific facts.
 
grandpa13

Yep, I realized that I muffed up that quote, shortly after I posted it. It must've been partly related to one of my own 10{?} favorite quotes, in which 'figures,' {officially, "statistics"}, Are attributed as being one of the three forms of lying; the other two.. being, "lies" and "damn lies."

The Bible is not scientific?
 
Every read Genesis chapter 1?
How about the story of Noah or about the sanctuary?
 
Not to leave the NT out of the equation.
 
Romans talks specifically about the virtues of being grafted in. This may indeed be faith, but when you add all the different parts together to deny the scientific aspect of what's being said there is unquestionable.
 
Sure the Bible is a book of
*History
*Poetry
*Inspiration
*And more
 
Including...
 
Science.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

 
My idea of what scientific facts are.
 
: principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses
 
grandpa13
 

Let US make man in our image.
 
Something that did not exist before.
Created for an US.
Which the Heavenly angels and God continue to observe.
 
Doesn't that fit your definition of scientific?
 
Cheers
IBIJ

NO!
 
D

 The bible is a scientific wasteland. Genesis and Noah , which have been shown by science, to be totally implausible, should have been discreetly removed from the bible, decades ago.

They are still in the book my friend.
 
And even more than that.
 
The Bible has debunked science of humanity long before the converse was ever the case.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

I think we're talking about the proverbial "apples and oranges"; since one of the several steps of the so-called "scientific method" is "peer {confirming} review"; can anyone seriously suggest, {provided one isn't a 'dyed-in-the-wool' atheist}, that we as humans, {even if we happen to be degreed scientists}, are "peers" {equals} of God?! {rhetorical}
 
Plus, there Are Scripture passages that can be taken in more than one way; as in, the 'OT' passage: "He hangeth the earth upon nothing." The preceding Scripture verse, was obviously written for all those generations Before "gravity," and the Still hypothetical {undiscovered} "gravitons," were known, and-or postulated about; but looking at it another way; "gravity," though invisible {thus far} to our most sophisticated means of detecting this 'weak force,' is obviously, 'something,' to our modern-day reckoning, as opposed to "nothing"!
 
Chalk up, another Scripture passage, that in contrast to being erroneous, {which it isn't}, was merely ultimately intended to be taken figuretively, and not literally; even if it is, one of those proverbial, "close calls"!

Hi Hmmm
 
6 Death [a] is naked before God;
Destruction [b] lies uncovered.
 
7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing.
 
8 He wraps up the waters in his clouds,
yet the clouds do not burst under their weight.
Job 26:6-8
 
However we believe this world remains in space, is it not based upon hypothetical constructs? Could it be that the way this earth remains exactly where it is simply be because "he suspends the earth over nothing."? How would that statement therefore be meant as a mere figurative statement?
 
Happy Sabbath
IBIJ

'IBIJ' said:8 He wraps up the waters in his clouds,
yet the clouds do not burst under their weight.
Job 26:6-8

However we believe this world remains in space, is it not based upon hypothetical constructs? Could it be that the way this earth remains exactly where it is simply be because "he suspends the earth over nothing."? How would that statement therefore be meant as a mere figurative statement?
 
Obvious to us two, for starters; God invented the processes by which the planets {and suns}, do-their-thing {if you will}, but without violating the 'laws of physics.' -- The fact that clouds do not "burst" under the weight of their containing water, for example, is because "H2o" takes 3 different forms, with its gaseous form, {being lighter in weight, than the surrounding atmosphere}, accounting for the clouds' ability to retain the weight of its own "water," {albeit, in its gaseous form}; ergo, it can be explained by the laws of physics.
 
I don't believe I said, {or at least intended to say}, that our planet, {earth} is held up by a "hypothetical construct." That "gravity" is a 'force' that manifests itself in various ways, I think even you, {'IBIJ'}, would agree to; and as to why I believe our earth's position in space is reasonably stable, is Not because it cannot be explained, other than a mysterious 'Power-of-God' unadulterated {pure} miracle, as you seem to imply, but given my semi-limited understanding of gravity, I would think it's related to the centrifugal rotational-force of our planet, {amongst, many-many others!}, that keeps our earth from literally tumbling out of its yearly solar orbit. Similar to how a bucket-full of water, stays in the bucket, when spun around, sufficiently fast.
 
The only thing Re. gravity, as far as scientific explanation is concerned, that science cannot Yet account for {as in, "hypothetical construct"}, regards, the precise assumed, sub-atomic particle means, by which the 'weak' force of gravity is transmitted. Perhaps the European 'CERN' super-collider, will one day discover that already named, "graviton" particle, as the matter-
related, force-transmitter{!?}
 
Even as mankind's scientific understanding, stands now; for one to claim that the earth is suspended by "nothing," is a literal statement as you seem to assert, cannot be right; because then you would be in-effect, denying, what science Does know about gravity; which is that it's "centrifigal-force" related; and "centrifigal force," cannot be dismissed, by you.. or anyone, as "nothing"; simply to support your strained opinion, that this Scripture passages,' "nothing" in-context reference, is a "literal" reference.

 
For once, and never to be repeated, we are in agreement. Mankind has indeed been conned by verses. BTW,I'm willing to give the bible a serious case of editing; something it desperately needs. I can chop off a few books here and there, get rid of the superfluous fluff, the ambiguous passages, the lies,etc. I reckon I could fit all the useful stuff on a bumper sticker. "To save time, please hand over your wallet and all credit cards".

grevillea," There's a World-of-difference, between saying that a passage was meant to be taken figuretively {as I do}, and claiming {as you do}, that a given Scriptural passage, is therefore a lie or 'con job'!

The "New American Standard Version" of the Bible reads: "He suspends the earth over empty space." -- The fact that science discovered about 35 years ago, that "empty space" really isn't Truly 'empty'..{at all times}, as photonic particles 'pop' in-and-out of existence, is one of those finer points, that virtually no one, except perhaps, agnostic or atheist astro-physicists, would give a damn about, as it relates to the Bible!; and the same Almost holds true for the word, 'nothing'; especially, when the 'nothing' controversy, can easily be resolved, by calling it.. a figuretive-metaphorical, reference!

Ps., I noticed, "grevillea," that my reply to you, Re. the Scriptural reference to ants having "no overseer," {singular form, of the word}, went unanswered by you; but perhaps you thought I was 'splitting hairs,' which I really wasn't!

  Some background to the passage "The ant is wise. He has no overseer". Now, as you know, the bible has had hundreds of authors over the years. Not all of them were committed to the cause.Some just did it for the money, and some were in fact atheists. Some inserted little cryptic messages. "The ant is wise...", is one of them. In this case, ants obviously is a metaphor for mankind, and overseer is a metaphor for Lord and Master, or simply, just The LORD. The true meaning of that passage is..A wise man has no lord, or in everyday language...only a fool believes in god.