{from: godandscience.org}.. 'wL's' Preface: If you want to fault me for being 'tardy' in finding an online refutation {SC}, for your allegation; So be it. But I find that a decided 'side-issue'.. as regards your main 'charge'; Which involves bringing into question, the character of the 'God-of-the-Bible'! .. And yes; I have to agree, that there are limited areas of a 'disconnect'; Between the Original Inspired 'Word-of-God' {in its original language}; And minor portions {percentage-wise}, of mis-translated, Scripture.
 
And whether or not it's an unappreciated fact, that refers to All specific 'OT' passages and Scripture translations {or even 'mis-translations'}; Is something that I have yet to investigate.
.. Chalk up, two {maybe 3}, points, for all the 'God-haters' and debunkers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I recently came across a post that states that God endorses or condones rape {which we know is not true}.. I deleted it but I wanted to address one of the things it was saying. One particular passage they used was a passage from Deuteronomy 22:28-29.. In this case having the woman marry the alleged rapist (against her will).
 
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and RAPES her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated (anah) her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV
 
Compared to the NKJV...
 
“If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he SEIZES her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NKJV
 
I recently did a google search on this and found that the citation isn’t even addressing a rape case at all. Please read the following rebuttal to it. I thought it was very interesting.
 
There are two points to note here. First, even though the verse may seem to be instructing the rapist to marry the victim the passage nowhere sanctions, condones or even approves of rape. This is simply a gross misreading of the text. The injunction is intended to instruct the Israelites on how to deal with and address a rape situation if and when it occurs.
 
Second, by taking a careful look at the context and consulting the original languages of the Scriptures a strong case can be made that this is citation isn’t even addressing a rape case at all. We must remember that the Holy Bible was not written in English. The OT was written in Hebrew, with parts of it being written in Aramaic. The NT was written in Koine or common Greek. This means that if we want to know whether an English translation has faithfully and accurately translated the inspired author’s intended meaning we must turn to the original language of the sacred text. Once this is done, it will become quite apparent that the Holy Bible does not sanction rape at all.
 
With this just said, the word which the NIV translates as rape comes from two Hebrew words, taphas and shakab. Here are the meanings listed by the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon in reference to these two words:
 
taphas -
 
# 08610
1) to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize, wield
a) (Qal)
1) to lay hold of, seize, arrest, catch
2) to grasp (in order to) wield, wield, use skilfully
b) (Niphal) to be seized, be arrested, be caught, be taken, captured
c) (Piel) to catch, grasp (with the hands)
 
AV - take 27, taken 12, handle 8, hold 8, catch 4, surprised 2, misc 4; 65
(Source: Blue Letter Bible)
 
Here is one example of how this word is used:
 
"The priests did not ask, ‘Where is the LORD?’ Those who deal (taphas) with the law did not know me; the leaders rebelled against me. The prophets prophesied by Baal, following worthless idols." Jeremiah 2:8
 
shakab -
 
# 07901
1) to lie down
a) (Qal)
1) to lie, lie down, lie on
2) to lodge
3) to lie (of sexual relations)
4) to lie down (in death)
5) to rest, relax (fig)
b) (Niphal) to be lain with (sexually)
c) (Pual) to be lain with (sexually)
d) (Hiphil) to make to lie down
e) (Hophal) to be laid
 
AV - lie 106, sleep 48, lie down 43, rest 3, lien 2, misc 10; 212
(Source: Blue Letter Bible)
 
As Brown-Driver-Briggs demonstrates, the word can be used in relation to sexual intercourse as well as for other things. The following examples help demonstrate that shakab does not necessarily imply a forced sexual act:
 
"And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, ‘Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘If any man's wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him, and a man lies (shakab) with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and it is concealed that she has defiled herself, and there was no witness against her, nor was she caught—" Numbers 5:11-13 NKJV
 
Here, the word shakab refers to a voluntary sexual act between two consenting parties, in this case to a woman who voluntarily chooses to commit adultery. It is clear that the woman in question wasn't forced into having sex. Again:
 
"If a man lies with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in water and be unclean until evening." Leviticus 15:18
 
These examples clearly demonstrate that these terms do not in and of themselves necessarily imply that rape is in view. This is reflected in the way Deuteronomy 22 has been translated by the following translations:
 
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; KJV
 
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, who is not espoused, and taking her, lie with her, and the matter come to judgment: DOUAY-RHEIMS
 
If a man shall find a damsel [that is] a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; WEBSTER BIBLE
 
If a man find a lady who is a virgin, who is not pledged to be married, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; WORLD ENGLISH BIBLE
 
When a man findeth a damsel, a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath caught her, and lain with her, and they have been found, YLT
 
When a man findeth a damsel that is a virgin who is not betrothed, and layeth hold of her and lieth with her, and they are found, ROTHERHAM
 
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; JPS 1917 OT
 
"If a man find a damsel who is a virgin who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her and lie with her, and they be found, THIRD MILLENNIUM
 
If a man find a damsel, a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found, DARBY
 
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; AMV
 
If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, RSV
 
If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are caught in the act, NRSV
 
If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, NASB
 
If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, ESV
 
If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her and they are found, AMPLIFIED
 
Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If they are caught, CEV
 
Now someone may want to argue that the preceding examples do not combine the two words together as is the case with Deuteronomy 22. Hence, the use of the word taphas in conjunction with shakab in Deuteronomy implies that the sexual act was forced upon the maiden without her consent. A careful reading of both the passage itself, as well as its surrounding context, dispels such a notion. We quote the passage again, yet this time adding the surrounding context for further clarification:
 
"But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces (chazaq) her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman CRIED OUT, but there was no one to save her. If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and THEY ARE found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days." Deuteronomy 22:25-29 NKJV
 
Although vv. 25-27 refers to a woman that is betrothed, the point is still clear. By screaming, the woman indicates that she is being forced to have sex without her consent. Hence, when the woman does not scream this indicates that she willfully chose to engage in the sexual act with the man. This is further seen from vv. 28-29 where both the man and the woman are held accountable, i.e. "and THEY ARE found out." This is unlike the woman of vv. 25-27 who is said to be not guilty.
 
Also notice that in v. 25 a different word is used when signifying rape, namely chazaq. If the inspired author wanted to imply that the woman in vv. 28-29 was being raped, he could have used this same word chazaq; especially since this is the word he uses in the preceding verses to refer to an actual rape incident. The fact that he didn't use it should further caution us from reading rape into vv. 28-29.
 
This is supported by other OT passages. In the places where rape is mentioned none of them use the word taphas with anah. Rather, the authors use the word chazaq with anah to convey this notion:
 
"Now Dinah the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to see the women of the land. And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he seized (laqach) her and lay (shakab) with her and humiliated (anah) her. And his soul was drawn to Dinah the daughter of Jacob. He loved the young woman and spoke tenderly to her. So Shechem spoke to his father Hamor, saying, ‘Get me this girl for my wife.’ Now Jacob heard that he had defiled his daughter Dinah. But his sons were with his livestock in the field, so Jacob held his peace until they came. And Hamor the father of Shechem went out to Jacob to speak with him. The sons of Jacob had come in from the field as soon as they heard of it, and the men were indignant and very angry, because he had done an outrageous thing (n’balah) in Israel by lying with Jacob's daughter, for such a thing must not be done." Genesis 34:1-7 ESVESV
 
And:
 
"Then Amnon said to Tamar, ‘Bring the food into the chamber, that I may eat from your hand.’ And Tamar took the cakes she had made and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother. But when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her and said to her, ‘Come, lie with me, my sister.’ She answered him, ‘No, my brother, do not violate (anah) me, for such a thing is not done in Israel; do not do this outrageous thing (n’balah). As for me, where could I carry my shame? And as for you, you would be as one of the outrageous fools in Israel. Now therefore, please speak to the king, for he will not withhold me from you.’ But he would not listen to her, and being stronger (chazaq) than she, he violated (anah) her and lay (shakab) with her. Then Amnon hated her with very great hatred, so that the hatred with which he hated her was greater than the love with which he had loved her. And Amnon said to her, ‘Get up! Go!’ But she said to him, ‘No, my brother, for this wrong in sending me away is greater than the other that you did to me.’ But he would not listen to her. He called the young man who served him and said, "Put this woman out of my presence and bolt the door after her.’ Now she was wearing a long robe with sleeves, for thus were the virgin daughters of the king dressed. So his servant put her out and bolted the door after her. And Tamar put ashes on her head and tore the long robe that she wore. And she laid her hand on her head and went away, crying aloud as she went. And her brother Absalom said to her, ‘Has Amnon your brother been with you? Now hold your peace, my sister. He is your brother; do not take this to heart.’ So Tamar lived, a desolate woman, in her brother Absalom's house. When King David heard of all these things, he was very angry. But Absalom spoke to Amnon neither good nor bad, for Absalom hated Amnon, because he had violated (anah) his sister Tamar ... But Jonadab the son of Shimeah, David's brother, said, ‘Let not my lord suppose that they have killed all the young men the king's sons, for Amnon alone is dead. For by the command of Absalom this has been determined from the day he violated (anah) his sister Tamar.’" 2 Samuel 13:10-22, 32 ESV
 
Notice that neither passage uses the word taphas, providing additional support that this word in of itself doesn’t necessarily imply the use of force. It also demonstrates our point that if the inspired author had rape in view he could have simply used chazaq, or even laqach, since these are the very words he used elsewhere to indicate that a rape had occurred.(1)
 
The final line of evidence demonstrating that Deuteronomy 22:28 does not condone rape comes from Exodus:
 
"If a man entices (pathah) a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies (shakab) with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins." Exodus 22:16-17
 
Note that in this passage the word pathah is used in place of taphas. Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon defines pathah as:
 
# 06601
1) to be spacious, be open, be wide
a) (Qal) to be spacious or open or wide
b) (Hiphil) to make spacious, make open
2) to be simple, entice, deceive, persuade
a) (Qal)
1) to be open-minded, be simple, be naive
2) to be enticed, be deceived
b) (Niphal) to be deceived, be gullible
c) (Piel)
1) to persuade, seduce
2) to deceive
d) (Pual)
1) to be persuaded
2) to be deceived
 
AV - entice 10, deceive 8, persuade 4, flatter 2, allure 1, enlarge 1, silly one 1, silly 1; 28
(Source: Blue Letter Bible)
 
As can be seen, the word can mean entice, persuade, deceive etc. The following passage uses the word in a slightly similar fashion to that of Exodus, namely how God will allure or draw Israel back to his love:
 
"‘Therefore I am now going to allure (pathath) her; I will lead her into the desert and speak tenderly to her. There I will give her back her vineyards, and will make the Valley of Achor a door of hope. There she will sing as in the days of her youth, as in the day she came up out of Egypt. In that day,’ declares the LORD, ‘you will call me "my husband"; you will no longer call me "my master." I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips; no longer will their names be invoked. In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and the birds of the air and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety. I will betroth you to me forever; I will betroth you in righteousness and justice, in love and compassion. I will betroth you in faithfulness, and you will acknowledge the LORD.’" Hosea 2:14-20
 
It is clear from the context that Exodus is referring to a man persuading or enticing a woman into having sex. Hence, this passage lends support to the fact that the woman in Deuteronomy 22:28-29 consented to the sexual act, and wasn't forced into having sex. In other words, there was no rape involved between the man and the woman.
 
As the following Study Bible puts it:
 
22:28-29 Preceding legislation dealt with cases of rape involving a woman already married or engaged. The ruling outlined here is addressed in cases of seduction IN WHICH IT IS ASSUMED THAT THE WOMAN WAS, OR MAY HAVE BEEN, CONSENTING TO THE SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP. The fact that such a relationship had taken place was nevertheless regarded as of vital concern to the community and therefore required that a requisite sum of money be paid to the woman's father. It is assumed that the bride's father's rights have been violated by what had taken place and that appropriate compensation was necessary to offset the loss of the expected bride-price. A further stipulation required that the couple should then marry and that no subsequent divorce was to be permitted. In Exodus 22:16-17 the closely comparable law allows that the father need not consent to giving his daughter to the man, in which case the compensation was still to be paid to the father. Fifty shekels was a significantly large amount and may be assumed to have been equivalent to the average bride-price. (The New Interpreter's Study Bible: New Revised Standard Version with the Apocrypha [Abingdon Press, Nashville TN 2003], pp. 278-279; underline and capital emphasis ours)
 
This concludes our exegesis of Deuteronomy 22:28-29. We prayerfully hope that by the grace of our risen Lord and eternal Savior Jesus Christ, this short paper will be of great help to those Christians who have been confronted by Muslims with the accusation that the Holy Bible condones the raping of women. Hopefully, both Christians and Muslims will see that the Holy Bible nowhere condones rape.
 
In the service of our great and eternal triune God forever and ever. Amen. Come Lord Jesus, come. We will always love you, risen Lord of eternal Glory.
 
 
Further Reading
 
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2007/07/ ... wrong.html
 
Endnote
 
(1) The word anah is used elsewhere without any notion of rape being attached to it:
 
"When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored (anah) her. Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NIV
 
The man didn’t humble the captive by raping her since he had to lawfully marry her before he could touch her sexually. Rather, he dishonored her by taking her captive or for letting her go either before marrying her or by divorcing her since all of this would imply that the man found something unbecoming or unfavorable about the woman in question.
 
Similarly, in the context of Deuteronomy 22:28-29 anah is being used to convey the idea that the man has brought humiliation to the maiden because he slept with her without marrying her first, something which would have been considered shameful to do.
 
 
Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm

i think you raped it to death after 10 pages. Great parallel. Any man who rapes a woman should have his balls cut off. That would include God.

I took my filter off to see what you were responding to....wish I hadn't ...now I need a bath

 
This is how i met my beautiful Wife.
 
D
 
 
God Bless You

....you're a lucky, lucky man
 
 

Welding comes only with practice. The following pages will help the
inexperienced welder to understand welding and develop his
skill.
The Arc-Welding Circuit
The operator’s knowledge of arc welding must go beyond the
arc itself. He must know how to control the arc, and this
requires a knowledge of the welding circuit and the equipment
that provides the electric current used in the arc. The circuit begins where the electrode cable is attached to the welding machine and
ends where the work cable is attached to the welding
machine. Current flows through the electrode cable to the
electrode holder, through the holder to the electrode and
across the arc. On the work side of the arc, the current flows
through base metal to the work cable and back to the welding
machine. The circuit must be complete for the current to flow.
To weld, the work clamp must be tightly connected to clean
base metal. Remove paint, rust, etc. as necessary to get a
good connection. Connect the work clamp as close as possible
to the area you wish to weld. Avoid allowing the welding
circuit to pass through hinges, bearings, electronic components
or similar devices that can be damaged.
 
The electric arc is made between the work and the tip end of
a small metal wire, the electrode, which is clamped in a holder
and the holder is held by the welder. A gap is made in the
welding circuit (see Figure 1) by holding the tip of the electrode
1/16-1/8” away from the work or base metal being
welded. The electric arc is established in this gap and is held
and moved along the joint to be welded, melting the metal as
it is moved.
Arc welding is a manual skill requiring a steady hand, good
physical condition, and good eyesight. The operator controls
the welding arc and, therefore, the quality of the weld made.
.What Happens in the Arc?
Figure 2 illustrates the action that takes place in the electric
arc. It closely resembles what is actually seen during welding.
The “arc stream’’ is seen in the middle of the picture. This is
the electric arc created by the electric current flowing through
the space between the end of the electrode and the work.
The temperature of this arc is about 6000°F. (3315°C), which
is more than enough to melt metal. The arc is very bright, as
well as hot, and cannot be looked at with the naked eye without
risking painful injury. The very dark lens, specifically
designed for arc welding, must be used with the hand or face
shield whenever viewing the arc.
The arc melts the base metal and actually digs into it, much
as the water through a nozzle on a garden hose digs into the
earth. The molten metal forms a molten pool or crater and
tends to flow away from the arc. As it moves away from the
arc, it cools and solidifies. A slag forms on top of the weld to
protect it during cooling
 

 
Interesting? just like your stuff.

 
 
Watch for the complete instructions for the correct use of the above.
 
Also included is a jump start aid for you trip to 'spread the word' to the others.
 
Web Link

During my many years of being around super tiresome people such as yourself and your other memberships I have noticed two main things about all you so called “religious” people.
 
Most all people, just like you, that preach and talk and quote verses from a bible seem to be overly consumed with sexual topics and actions. It must true that the nicest, most religious people have the filthiest thoughts.
 
There was a time when knowledge was acquired only with years of hard work, reading and attending classes and lectures from actual recognized authorities. Knowledge was a 'learned' activity. We all know you are NOT in that category.
 
Now, all a person needs is three things to acquire the alleged appearance of vast intelligence.
 

One:    Ctrl A
Two:    Ctrl C
Three:  Ctrl V

 
In the event a person is too stupid or can't use a keyboard well, there is always the right button on the mouse and follow intructions. If one is able to do that.

Sorry but you are going to Hell too.
 
 
God Bless You
 
D
 

Well that clears up the issue of rape. Whenever you read that word in the Bible, it means the woman or young girl, is a slut begging and pleading for sex from any lecherous old geezer who wanders past.

This is an article from a new muslim convert, Karim, arguing against the "bad Hebrew" defense. I think the debunkers and haters have a lot more points than you think.
 
My apologies to everyone, but I just can't let this delusional idiot parrot a false argument against a passage that so clearly shows the bible as a book written by iron age desert people, without any divinity.
 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV
 
This verse clearly speaks about the punishment for rape of a virgin girl, however not according to Sham Shamoun. This article refutes and exposes sham shamoun’s false claim that Deuteronomy 22:28-29 doesn’t talk about rape, his article can be found at http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm
 
Brother Sami Zaatril gave already a good reply to sham shamoun’s article before at:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_16.htm
 
This article proofs that brother Sami Zaatril is right and Sham Shamoun is wrong. At the end of this article you will see for your self how sham shamoun tried to deceive the readers with false statements and conclusions.

First let’s look at Genesis 34:1-7 , to see the similarity between these verses and deuteronomy 22:28-29.
 
Genesis 34:1-7 "Now Dinah the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to see the women of the land. And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he seized (laqach) her and lay (shakab) with her and humiliated (anah) her. And his soul was drawn to Dinah the daughter of Jacob. He loved the young woman and spoke tenderly to her. So Shechem spoke to his father Hamor, saying, ‘Get me this girl for my wife.’ Now Jacob heard that he had defiled his daughter Dinah. But his sons were with his livestock in the field, so Jacob held his peace until they came. And Hamor the father of Shechem went out to Jacob to speak with him. The sons of Jacob had come in from the field as soon as they heard of it, and the men were indignant and very angry, because he had done an outrageous thing (n’balah) in Israel by lying with Jacob's daughter, for such a thing must not be done."
 
Genesis 34:1-7 clearly speaks about rape:
 
David Guzik,Study Guide for Genesis Chapter 34
 
Genesis 34 - Simeon and Levi Massacre Shechem
 
A. The rape of Dinah

1. (1-4) A prince, Shechem violates Dinah; wants to marry her

Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1131546126-6251.html

 
So the words ‘he seized her and lay with her’ means rape in the bible.
 
The Hebrew word used for seized in genesis 34:1-7 is ‘laqach’
 
‘Laqach’ means:
 
Lexicon Results for laqach (Strong's 03947)
 
to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy,
bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away
 
to take, capture, seize
 
source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/3/1131546447-2089.html
 

 
When we look at verses
 
Deu 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
 
The Hebrew word used for ‘lay hold on her’ is ‘taphas’
 
‘Taphas’
means:

 
Lexicon Results for taphas (Strong's 08610)
 
1) to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize, wield
 
a) (Qal)
 
1) to lay hold of, seize, arrest, catch
 
2) to grasp (in order to) wield, wield, use skilfully
 
b) (Niphal) to be seized, be arrested, be caught, be taken, captured
 
c) (Piel) to catch, grasp (with the hands)
 
source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/8/1131546859-5932.html
 
 
The proof is sufficient to see that ‘laqach’ (gen 34:1-2) and ‘taphas’ (deu 22:28) have the same meaning. Since genesis 34:1-2 proofs that ‘seized her/lay hold on her’ means rape, it is clear that deuteronomy 22:28 also talks about rape.
 
Deu 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled (anah) her, he may not put her away all his days.
 
Also notice that Deuteronomy verse 29 says ‘she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled (anah) her’ the hebrew word used for humbled is ‘ anah’ , which in genesis 34:1 is translated as ‘humiliated’, so the girl in deuteronomy (28-29) is humiliated by the man , the hebrew word ‘anah’ means ‘humiliated’ ! (see: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/6/1131617037-4421.html )
 

 
Treasury of Scripture Knowledge ,Deuteronomy 22:29 (King James Version)
 
Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
 
Source: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Concordances/TreasuryofScriptureKnowledge/?reference=de+22:29
 
(even Sham Shamoun in his own article admits that ‘seized her’ and humiliated her’ means rape)
 


Further notice that in deuteronomy chapter 22 the verses about adultery (not rape and sexual abuse) don’t use the words ‘seizes her/ lay hold on her’ and ‘humiliated her’

Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, [both] the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

Deu 22:23 If a damsel [that is] a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

Deu 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, [being] in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.


These verses clearly don’t mention anything like ‘he seizes her/lay hold on her’ or ‘humiliated her’ .In deuteronomy 22:25-26 the verse mentions force, and in deu 22:28-29 the verse explicit mentions ‘and lay hold on her, and lie with her’ and ‘because he hath humbled (anah= humiliated) her, , therefore deuteronomy 22:28-29 clearly speaks about rape / sexual abuse.

We know have exposed the deceiving lie of the christian missionary Sham Shamoun who tried to hide the fact that deuteromony 22:28-29 speaks about rape, however there are also honest christians who admit the true meaning of the verse, see the proof for yourself below:


Matthew Henry, Commentary on the Whole Bible (1706) , DE U T E R O N O M Y , CHAP. XXII.

V. If a damsel not betrothed were thus abused by violence, he that abused her should be fined, the father should have the fine, and, if he and the damsel did consent, he should be bound to marry her, and never to divorce her, how much soever she was below him, and how unpleasing soever she might afterwards be to him, as Tamar was to Amnon after he had forced her, v. 28, 29. This was to deter men from such vicious practices, which it is a shame that we are necessitated to read and write of.

Source: http://www.ccel.org/h/henry/mhc2/MHC05022.HTM


COMMENTARY ON THE OLD TESTAMENT , Edited by Frank E Gaebelein
23-27 If the adulterous persons are a man and a woman "pledged to be married" to someone else and the act occurs in a town, without any voiced protest by the woman, stoning is required
(vv. 23-24). If rape occurs in the country, where a girl's screams could not be heard, only the man's life is required; the girl goes free (vv. 25-27).
 
28-29 The law is more lenient with a man who forces a virgin who is not pledged in marriage to another. The penalty, however, is not light. The offender must pay a fine of fifty shekels of silver, marry the girl, and keep her as his wife as long as he lives; she cannot be divorced. It was customary to pay a purchase price for a wife, but a set price is not indicated (Gen 34:12; Exod
Source: http://www.biblecentre.net/comment/ot/ebc/deu/deu91.html

Another trick some christians like sham shamoun use to deceive the reader is referring to Exodus , they try to deceive the reader by claiming that exodus 22;16-17 and deuteronomy 22:28-29 are the same situations , this is not true.

Exd 22:16-17 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

First of all exodus 22:16-17 talks about seducing (entice) a virgin, not rape. Now sham shamoun will scream that therefore deuteronomy doesn’t talk about rape, this is weak understanding and not correct from his site, since the word ‘entice’ in exodus can never mean ‘seizes/ lay hold on her’ like in deuteronomy 22:28-29. Even if we for the sake of argument take the impossible statement of sham shamoun that exodus 22:16-17 and deuteronomy 22:28-29 refer to the same situation, then sham shamoun has to admit that deuteronomy 22:28-29 abrogated exodus 22:16-17, since the verses of deuteronomy were revealed later then the verses in Exodus. However the different context and meaning of the words in both verses proof that exodus 22:16-17 and deuteronomy 22:28-29 are different situations and therefore don’t represent the the same rules ! This is not just a muslim opinion, honest christians and high jewish scholars of the Torah confirm this, check below the commentary of the Torah by Rabbi Dr. Azriel Rosenfeld :


25. Virginity - Naarah Besulah
If a man seduces a virgin he should marry her; if they do not want to marry he pays a fine equal to her marriage contract, as it says "And if a man seduces a virgin... he shall pay a dowry [for her] to be his wife; if her father refuses to give her to him he shall pay money equal to the dowry of virgins".1 If a man rapes a virgin he must pay the fine in any event and must marry her (unless she does not want him) and can never divorce her (except for cause), as it says "If a man finds a virgin and seizes her and lies with her... he must give her father 50 pieces of silver and she must become his wife... he cannot send her away all his life".2,a
 
If a man falsely accuses his wife of not having been a virgin he pays a double fine and can never divorce her (except for cause) [as it says "If a man marries a woman... and spreads a bad name about her and says `I took this woman and came near her and did not find signs of virginity'... they shall fine him 100 pieces of silver and give them to the girl's father... and she shall be his wife; he cannot send her away all his life"3].b The fines in all of these cases apply only if the girl is of a certain age.c
 
1. Ex. 22:15-16 .- a. 1:1,3,5
 
2. Deut. 22:28-29 b. 3:1,4
 
3. Deut. 22:13-19 c. 1:9; 3:2
 
Source: http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview/chapter25.html
 

 
( This class presents an overview of Jewish Law based on the Rambam's Mishneh Torah, the comprehensive code of Moses Maimonides. Summaries of each section of the Mishneh Torah present the reader with a basic understanding of the topics covered. Thus the class participant acquires knowledge about the breadth of the Halachic system.
 
The course material is presented by Rabbi Dr. Azriel Rosenfeld, who received Rabbinic ordination from the Rabbi Isaac Elchonon Theological Seminary of Yeshiva University. He is the Director of the Center for Automation Research at the University of Maryland in College Park and is a past president of the Association of Orthodox Jewish Scientists.
See http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview )
 

I respect the honest christians and jewish scholars who admit the true meaning of deuteronomy 22:28-29..Check aslo the jewish website below (translation of torah and commentary in one), who honestly shows us the context and meaning of these verses in deuteronomy. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 mentions the case if a unmarried (girl) virgin is raped, the previous verse talk about the case when a betrothed girl is raped. So clearly both verses talk about rape.

Rape

22:25 However, if the man encountered the betrothed girl in the field and raped her, then only the rapist shall be put to death.
22:26 You must not impose any penalty whatsoever upon the girl, since she has not committed a sin worthy of death. This is no different from the case where a man rises up against his neighbor and murders him.
22:27 After all, [the man] attacked her in the field, and even if the betrothed girl had screamed out, there would have been no one to come to her aid.

The Unmarried Girl
 
22:28 If a man encounters a virgin girl who is not betrothed and is caught raping her,
22:29 then the rapist must give the girl's father 50 [shekels] of silver. He must then take the girl he violated as his wife, and he may not send her away as long as he lives.


Source: http://bible.ort.org/books/pentd2.asp?ACTION=displaypage&BOOK=5&CHAPTER=22

And: http://bible.ort.org/intro1.asp?lang=1



Conclusion:

The bible sadly doesn’t mention the girl’s right to deny the rapist. Even if she would have had this right, the rapist only has to pay some silver sheeks to the father to get away with his crime. This is not a just punishment for rape of a virgin, it is insulting for the virgin to let the rapist get away in such a easy way, it is even more insulting for the virgin to give a command to marry the rapist (bible commentators say the girl can deny the rapist for marry, however the bible doesn’t mention this right)

According to the Bible, seduction and rape of an unwed girl were crimes against her father, for he would not only lose the anticipated bride-price for his daughter’s virginity but also have the onus of having to marry off “damaged goods.” Bible law is concerned with giving him justice and not the virgin. In Exodus 22:15–16 and Deuteronomy 22:28–29, we find the laws that stipulate money (a payment for damages) given to the father and the daughter married by both the seducer (Exodus) and the rapist (Deuteronomy).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
--SoCo

'SoCo's rebuttle {rare compliment coming}, was handled {by him}, like your Not-so-average, 2 'cuts-above' criminal defense attorney! Whom as most of us know, throughout the last umpteen hundred years, in the 'civilized' western world, {perhaps since "Charlemagne"?!..sp?}; Have on more than a few occassions, succeeded in persuading people, that 'what Was'..{or how it happened to be}; Really Wasn't! {did I hear someone whisper, 'OJ's 1995 acquittal?}.
 
For myself; And I assume, circa 99% of all 'believers'; The passages in the 'OT' {Bible}, that are a H-U-G-E 'stumbling-block' to many Non-believers {and are Not, to the 'believer'}; Re. the arguments against the Judeo-Christian concept, of a 'Just God'; Probably represents the 'high-water-mark' {if you will}, for discounting most, if not All the claims of the {Holy} Scriptures; From the point-of-view of the Non-believer.
 
Do I plan on carrying on this debate?; When it would seem that the number of 'believer' Web sites, {of which I chose only one}; Are Fully willing {and I assume 'capable'}, of countering this {figuretive} assault on the integrity, of the 'God-of-the-Bible'; Provided one 'googles' the correct phrase; Including, in a question format? {rhetorical}
 
Though some will naturally accuse me of 'copping out'; I personally believe, that it's the Rare 'dyed-in-the-wool' skeptic; Who will Ever reach the point of establishing a 'personal relationship' with 'JC'!
.. Simply because, I believe that NO DEFENSE of 'God' {using the common vernacular}, will adequately satisfy, circa 98% of All 'hard-core' skeptics! ..Nor for that matter; Does God/JC use that 'doorway' {that I'm aware of}; Of what amounts to an accusatory doubt, of the INFINITE {as it were}, by the unrepentant Sinner. Including those Same people, who are 'Living-a-Lie,' by rejecting {usually 'out-of-hand'}; That they're even in Need of Divine forgiveness!
 
P.s.- And, if you Still find these God-related 'stumbling blocks' as amounting to having to {metaphorically}, 'bite off, something bigger than you can chew'; I already provided One Web site response, {in defense of the Bible's all-encompassing integrity, that I 'googled'}; And to assume that they would All give the exact same response; Is to assume something, that Only 'God'.. or perhaps a few erudite {Bible-related} Web 'scholars' know!
 
Pps.- Which leaves unsaid; As to there being a reasonable {to most} answer, that lies Outside the Internet! ..D-U-H?!
 

 No need to apologise SC. Except for the iron age comment. Stone age patriarchal , violators of women is more appropriate.And as you correctly showed ..all done with Biblical approval. The sinking ship that white lightning is sailing on sprung another huge leak.

 
Then why do you persist in posting this crap.
 
D

 
Simply because, Not every skeptic could be described as 'dyed-in-the-wool'/'hard-core'; Nor would they arbitrarily dismiss 'JCs' Salvation message, as 'crap'!

I concider myself to be a simple man (not in the lack of brain sense) and i have to agree with Dual Space. Any man, whether they feel they have "the right" because they are "men of God", who rapes a women, molests a child or any other shit that people think they can get away with when actually, most decent men know right from wrong and dont need religious scriptures to lead them down certain paths, should have their balls cut off!! And left in a room with me, that would just be for starters!!!
 
Right, im off to play.......... Chess!!!!

What about 'lusting after women {or fantasizing}, in your heart,' al?
 
'JC' said, to paraphrase: that for any man who engages in that; It's the same as if they actually had {consensual} adulterous relations with her.
 
Anotherwords; Do you First get that female's permission, to fantasize about her; As I'm known to do?

  Why is this a problem ?
if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured.

 This is what is so weird about you and your fundamentalist buddies. You are more concerned with thoughts and beliefs than with actual actions. There are no thought crimes. Thinking anything at all, anytime, anywhere is never, has never been, and will never be morally wrong. You have to act against someone to violate their rights.

Your religion worships a guy who, if I'm not mistaken, fed the hungry, clothed the naked, and helped the sick, but somehow it matters more that he was born of a virgin, rose from the dead and forgave people for something they never did.
 
Wow, how thick are Xians!
 
The point would be to feed the hungry, not to yammer on endlessly about some other worldly salvation.
 
I have absolutely no idea what the hell you are blabbering about when you say you have a personal relationship with jesus christ.
News flash...He's been dead for 2000 years. It might behoove you to seek a personal relationship with actual living people.
The cult you are in has redirected your natural human instinct to bond with those around you, to bond with a fictional character, that they have control over, so that they can then control you. By the quote, you clearly have given them control over what you can think in your own mind! Free yourself brother!
 
Pay attention and ask yourself which of jesus' actions were more important, rising from the dead or helping fellow humans. You can actually do one of those two things in your life.
Care to guess which?
 
--SoCo

It does seem that there is very little, if any, separation between the religious and political mindset. Both are locked in to a very limited field. All of these people are looking through a straw. A very narrow straw.