{'Hom's: Without 'naming any names'; this article could logically be sub-titled; "Or why a few among us, objectively act like 'Stark-Raving-Fools,' when it comes to 'calling-out'/'dissing,' God!!"}
 
Originally posted by, arsin delve, Executive Director, Delve Christian Ministries
 
 
"Christianity, if false, is of No importance; and if True, is of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be, is, moderately important." -C.S Lewis
 
We each must choose what we are going to do about the idea of God. We may worship Him or mock Him, but we cannot do nothing, for doing nothing, is in itself, a choice Not to worship Him. If we are going to place a bet, so to speak, what are we really wagering? What are the risks, and what can we gain?!
 
 
1) If God Does Not Exist and You Ignore Him, You Gain Nothing
 
If there is no life after death and this life is all we have, then nothing really matters anyway. In mathematical terms, it's like wagering and losing zero. We can say that it makes sense to have a good time while we're here, but soon we will not be around to remember it. All that exists after an experience has passed are the memories and the ways in which that experience changed us. If there is no more "us" and no more memories, the experiences of our lives have no more relevance than if they never happened. For example, if you attended a party last night but can remember none of it, what difference does it really make if it was a dud, or really rocking? Once a moment passes, it's meaningless unless the person lives on, changed and affected by that moment and it's memories.
 
People talk about leaving behind a legacy and this brings some comfort, but what comfort can it offer when you don't exist to enjoy it, and soon the people who are enjoying it will not exist either? Whether we had a good life or a truly great life will mean nothing when we compare it against an infinity of nothingness which waits for us after our death.
 
 
2) If God Does Not Exist and You Worship Him, You Lose Nothing
 
Again, in mathematical terms, it's like wagering and gaining zero. Some people object to this idea and point out that at least they will not have wasted time in church, abiding by strict moral codes and holding back on things they really wanted to do. In reality, there is reason to believe that Christians live happier, fuller lives and this would be true even if God did not exist, but that is not the point. Even if it were true that you would have been much happier had you not spent time worshiping a God which did not exist, it will still all mean nothing when you die. Again, the difference between your "boring" life and your "great" life will be insignificant against the vast contrast of infinite nothingness you've become after you die.
 
 
3) If God Exists and You Ignore Him, You Risk Going To Hell
 
This is what we could consider the worst possible outcome. In mathematical terms, it's like wagering and losing infinity. It's not certain that ignoring God will result in this; it's what many major religions assert but that doesn't make it true. Even if God exists, you might go to heaven anyway, or hell might not be so bad. However, it's certainly a possibility, and the stakes are extremely high, even if this is a long shot.
 
 
4) If God Exists and You Worship Him, You Might Go To Heaven
 
This is what we could consider the best possible outcome. In mathematical terms, it's like wagering and gaining infinity. Again, it's not a given. You may worship God and not do it right or not do it well enough and go to Hell anyway. Heaven may not exist, or may not be a great place. It's only a possibility that worshiping God will secure this outcome; but like the previous wager, the stakes are enormous. Your entire infinite afterlife, hangs in the balance!
 
 
5) Therefore, The Only Reasonable Bet is to Worship Him.
 
If we are going to compare what can be gained during our short life on earth, against what can be gained or lost in eternity; then we have to place our bet on whatever gives us the best odds in an afterlife.
 
John Bevere explains it this way: If I told you that what you do in the next minute might affect you for the next hundred years, and you had some partial reason to believe that; you might conceivably endure anything in that minutes' worth of time, to potentially secure your place in the next century. You simply might not risk it.
 
..Even more compelling; Your life on earth, compared with, {to your mind}, possible prospect, of an Eternity in Heaven, or Hell; raises the stakes to a considerably higher level!
 
 
Of course, reality is Not a gamble; and God is much more than a mathematical equation. If we only worship God because we want to avoid Hell; won't He see through to our motives, and send us to Hell anyway?
 
Mercifully, that's Not how God works; for He knows that we can only initially reach for Him, for selfish reasons. The first time any of us reaches for God, we do so Not because we love Him, but because we are scared, lonely, or want to be 'saved.'
 
.. But then, the Spirit takes over and changes our heart. If we will be obedient in prayer, reading the scriptures and living for Jesus; no matter what our original motives were; in time, we will Truly love God and worship Him, with a 'Right heart'! Loving God selflessly is the result, not the prerequisite of obedience. If we could only come to God with 'unselfish motives,' we would All be 'lost'; simply because, initially; in the conversion process of becoming a 'born-again' believer; there Are No 'unselfish motives'!
 
If Pascal's wager causes us to see God as a "safe bet," then we can begin investigating God, and learning about Him; and we can begin to worship for no reason other than that we are scared of Hell. It will likely grow into something real!
 
"Pascal's Wager" can't save anyone!; but it Can draw attention to the seriousness and importance of the issue, Re. the choice!; and start us down the 'Right path'.. where God will meet us!!

HoM:
 
I, like many others, have peaked* some of the large quantities of posts about the most basic topics about faith, the existence of (a) God, salvation and the exchange of ideas between lots of cool guys (afrit(paz), raptor, Hel(snoop),greavillea,doorman,IBJ,Dual,yourself,etc...)for many reasons: their fine humor, interesting posts, bizarre ideas and to read about things that concerns everyone of us at different levels of intensity throughout or lives.
 
It is impossible to be or feel identified 100% with all the concepts are shown in the large or short dissertations ( i.e. the relation of blasfemies and the effect of some people dying, or greavillea´s answer on the matter) but reading and listening all the postures help us to define better our possition or commitment about so important things. I know there must be site where 99% of the time people are exchanging ideas on this issues and maybe 1% play chess occassionally in between the braistormings but here is the other way around...
 
I thank you and IBJ for the patience in answering and taking jokes and when I read your articles I feel your intentions are the best possible and believe me...put me many times questioning myself, and my faith what at the end is good, since I belive one must be perfectly defined what to do about it. I enjoyed the article of today where you cited CSLewis ( I can still remember a book from CS I read about an experienced demon writing to his nephew and giving him all kind of suggestions and tips to capture souls that made me see things we do all the time thinking we are being good christians and at the end we are only fooling ourselves) because it was concise, simple, and tried to use ordinary logic with a mixture of disbelief which made it tempting and easy to read.
 
I also admire snoop´s & others (but specially him) patience and animosity to discuss with a mix of humor, sarcasm and anger but always respectfully different ideas. At the end he is doing a healthier thing doing that than many of us watching and doing nothing..at least he is going to be more convinced of his position than before after the exchanges or maybe a seed has been planted many years before and someday his views can change, as anything is moving and nothing is the same, even you might (and I am sure someday you had or have or will feel different about your faith like mother Theresa) experience...
 
Maybe some guys feel tired of reading religion stuff everywhere in a chess site and because of that I would suggest you and IBJ and all the fishermen of souls to speak about this perhaps in a religion post or section where whoever is interested to exchange doubts or ideas or make questions or disagree about something can go in and do it....
 
thanks again dude...

Well said Wanna.

Your 'Velcome'!, 'Wanna,' Perhaps, it's in part because English, {specifically, "American English"}, is Not your native language; that you managed to come across in your post, as being, 'All-Over-the-Place,' in terms of your observations, 'side' comments, regarding specific people; and your expressed hope that 'IBIJ' and I, would find 'somewhere else,' on the 'www,' or 'Web,' to express our views; ending with your, "Thanks, dude."
 
My reaction; 1} You're to be commended for understanding typed, printed, and presumably spoken English; Far better than I understand Any language, except English!
 
2} To the best of my knowledge, I've Never 'Stood in Judgement' of Anyone!; and to the extent that it might've seemed to some others, like I have; I'm only giving them the same sort of 'observation-based, feedback'{if you will}, that they would encounter, from Any number of Other, 'born-again' believers; though obviously, Not from All of them.
 
3} I'm not picking out Anyone, as the Focus of my prolythesizing; Nor is 'IBIJ' for that matter. But if someone, including yourself, decides to read my posts, and reply to them; common courtesy, dictates, that I should reply to them; usually, by their 'Caissa' handle.
 
4} The fact that 'IBIJ's, and my own spiritual/religious oriented posts, Do get some 'feedback,' or replies; and are undoubtedly read, by even More people, shows that we are Not addressing issues that no one cares about!; and Even if that were the case; as more than a few of my 'secular' oriented 'posts' are; if the 'feedback' I get, is any indication,{which I don't believe is necessarily the case!}; there's Still nothing illegal, or even ill-advised, about it, 'imho.'
 
5} It IS a trueism, that people sometimes illogically get More upset with 'the messenger,' {myself, & 'IBIJ'}, than 'The Message'; especially, when 'The Message,' can be conveniently ignored; if, No one bothers to mention it!..D-u-h!?.. {I would imagine that, "kill the messenger," can be 'googled'!; though, I've never tried}.
 
6. At the risk of sounding overly sarcastic, 'Wanna,' {and with my apologies, for possibly offending you, in advance}; A career in politics, {regardless, of your chosen, democratic country of choice}, both beckons & awaits you!.. Since, in philosophical terms, {and I'm basing this on your posted reply}, you seem to have both criticizms{sp?}, and modest thanks, for most All concerned{!?}, with 'Snoop' 'coming off,' {apparently, in your own mind}, as arguably, the most rational of anyone{!?}.. while {you're} in-effect, coming out against unrestricted 'free-speech; ending with, you thanking me.
 
.. If this reply of mine, leaves you 'hanging'-in-wonderment; it's only because your {reply} post, left me with basically, the same feeling{!?}..

 
Look who is talking. His post was extremely clear and could be read without difficulty. I do suggest you take lessons from BLADE.

Thanks Rap!
 
I did not get offended by his innuendos about language or my career ( I even can sell that SALSA and do well!LOL) at all. Do not worry.
 
And maybe the mixed views I showed is because I see very interesting things on the exchanges from you and others (And I mentioned snoop because he does not offend you and keep questioning and answering you in a serious way) but also detect that many people is tired of this kind of discussions all over the BB.
 
So why not dedicate a complete section to it and people can come and go and ask, read and question only religious things?? I would look over of those discussions a lot but many will not and be happier....as simple as that...but I guess for Caissa is far better to have this debates and funny replies than to have a boring corner on the BB...oh well!...
 
next time i will try to answer in Deustch!...ja!

 looking forward to it! .Sie mussen geshlonken wissen werden immer mal gehabt auf.

Ok,ok...maybe not german....french!LOL

 I can hardly speak a word of German. I tried to learn it but , it was too hard. That German sentence which I wrote is all nonsense. Geshlonken is not even a German word. I made it up! But it sounds like German!

 
Obviously, the 'Powers-that-Be' have already set certain 'boundaries,' on your abilities; perhaps figuring, that it's Bad Enough, that you're able 'dis' & {capital} insult Him, in English, And French!
 
Ps. Speaking of More Powerful beings, whose existence cannot be definitively proven, to everyone's satisfaction; I hereby pledge, to Never go out into the 'NW' woods here, at night; in the course of shouting, disrespecting, And insulting, 'Bigfoot'!..

es gibt kein gott on second thoughts es gibt keinen gott. who knows