Writer unknown
 
He was born in an obscure village the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in another obscure village, where He worked in a carpenter shop until He was 30. Then for three years, He was an itinerant preacher. He never had a family or owned a home. He never set foot inside a big city. He never traveled 200 miles from the place he was born. He never wrote a book, or held an office. He did none of the things that usually accompany greatness.
While he was still a young man, the tide of popular opinion turned against Him. His friends deserted Him. He was turned over to his enemies, and went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a cross between two thieves. While he was dying, His executioners gambled for the only piece of property He had – his coat. When he was dead He was taken down and laid in a barrowed grave.
 
"Twenty centuries have come and gone, and today He is the central figure for much of the human race. All the armies that ever marched and all the Navies that ever sailed and all the parliaments that ever sat and all the Kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man upon this Earth as powerfully as this 'One Solitary Man.' "
 
(Christmas was named for Jesus Christ, not Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, or a jug of milk.)
 
Grandpa13

Hi GP13
 
Nice sentiments about Jesus to be sure. However your final analysis is indeed wanting.
 
Christmas according to Wikipedia.
 
The Romans held a festival on December 25 called Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "the birthday of the undefeated sun." The use of the title Sol Invictus allowed several solar deities to be worshipped collectively, including Elah-Gabal, a Syrian sun god; Sol, the god of Emperor Aurelian (AD 270–274); and Mithras, a soldiers' god of Persian origin.[11] Emperor Elagabalus (218–222) introduced the festival, and it reached the height of its popularity under Aurelian, who promoted it as an empire-wide holiday.[12]
 
December 25 was considered the day upon which the winter solstice, which the Romans called bruma, fell.[13] (When Julius Caesar introduced the Julian Calendar in 45 BC, December 25 was approximately the date of the solstice.
In modern times, the solstice falls on December 21 or 22.) It is the day the Sun proves itself to be "unconquered" and begins its movement toward the north on the horizon. The Sol Invictus festival has a "strong claim on the responsibility" for the date of Christmas, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia.[5] Several early Christian writers connected the rebirth of the sun to the birth of Jesus[14] "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born . . . Christ should be born", Cyprian wrote.[5]
 
Therefore, according to historical documenations Christmas is very much a pagan holiday. Considering it's focus in our modern world it would appear to me that largely it's paganism continues.
 
Another forth rightly pagan even would be Sunday worship.
 
Back to Wikipedia.
 
Sunday is named after Sunna (Sól), Germanic goddess of the sun, from which the word sun also is derived. The practice of naming the seven days after the then known "planets" goes back to Babylonian or Egyptian times and was adopted by Greeks and Romans.
 
To appeal to the pagans of his day Constantine changed the day of worship to the 1st day of the week (Sunday) rather than the 7th day of the week (Saturday).
 
Despite the fact that God's Word clearly says...
 
Daniel 7:25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.
 
And who takes open responsibility for this?
 
Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Third Edition"1). Question: Which is the Sabbath day? "Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. 2). "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"Answer. "We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
 
And those who study this out have no choice but to admit the truth.
 
Episcopal - 'The Bible commandment says on the seventh day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday." Philip Carrington, Toronto Daily Star, October 26, 1949.
 
Congregationalist Timothy Dwight- Theology: Explained and Defended (1823)- " . . . the Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive Church called the Sabbath."
 
"Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day." Methodist- Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942
 
And the list goes on.
===> http://members.aol.com/KHoeck2/notes.html
 
Cheers
IBIJ

 
See... here's the thing IBIJ....IMHO GP13's post is much more likely to get people thinking along the lines that you want than yours will...why do you think that might be?
 

Simple, because people aren't interested in the truth of a matter. People are interested in their own ego's being stroked instead. In the proper place that's not a bad thing and I lead a career in doing exactly that on the web. However, as it relates to eternal salvation the stakes are far to high not to be forth-right and truthful instead of attempting to mix facts with fiction.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

There's nowhere to be found in the 'NT' {New Test.}, according to Most 'born-again' believers, 'in-the-know'; where, in order to have 'the risen Christ,' join with ones' own spiritual self, {ie. become 'born again'}; that they must First get, All of their "Old Testament," proverbial {letter}, 'pees, queues, and 'dotted eyes'{sp?} in order; according to the 'SDA's {7th-Day Adventists}, 'take' on the Bible!
 
I don't even know, what it is, about the '7th-Day Adventist' denomination, that causes them to 'attack'..{albeit, non-violently}, Other Christian sects, with a vigor and gusto, {if, 'IBIJ' is representitive}, that's Not reciprocated{!?}
 
Ps. I could conjecture, but I won't. -

IBIJ
 
Why do you bathe in the past? My post is about the NOW, today 2008.
 
Christmas today is certainly not a pagan holiday.
 
grandpa13

And why do you ignore history? Perhaps because of denomintional horrors.
 
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
 
God help us all.
 
Cheers
IBIJ
 
PS: Paganism -- Decorated tree in everyone's living room... Exchange of gifts to one another... Shopping... TV Shows... Not a whole lot of room for Christ in Christmas opps I mean Xmas.

 
Is that not self reason to explain away the idea of keeping the 10 Commandments? Would thatnot in essence be an "attack" upon those who proclaim the importance of commandment keeping?
 
Given that...
 
 
Could it possibly be because of their blind arrogance that misleads countless thousands?
 
Mark 10
John 14:15
15"If you love me, you will obey what I command.
 
17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"
 
Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
 
Revelation 14:12
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
 
Yes, perhaps that is it. Though I'll not likely find out from you as you choose for whatever reason not to dialog directly with me. Unless, of course, that choice is changing in current day postings.
 
Cheers
IBIJ
 

IBIJ
 
I judge the future by what is happening in the present. I haven't noticed any pagans at our house during Christmas. (Whatever your definition of a pagan is)
 
I notice you are quoting from Wikipedia, Maybe there is hope.
 
 
I take that as an insult.
 
 
 
If you bathe in history, you are bound to repeat it.
 
grandpa13
 

It wasn't meant as a direct insult, but there certainly are things for which most Catholics are not proud as related to their history. However, it certainly wasn't a compliment.
 
What famous person generated your statement. My quote comes from historical evidance as reflected in the eyes of someone quite other than myself. Are you suprised. :)
 
Cheers
IBIJ

 
They call that casting the first stone where I come from.
 
 
I don't feel I need a famous person to generate a statement.
 
grandpa13

They call that reflecting upon undeniable historical facts where I come from. Bare in mind I'm not saying these are crimes they will be guilty of (though history will repeat itself), but rather this is what has taken place in the past.
 
It would be great if we could simply throw away past historical documentations as...
 
* The jails would be empty as no one could be guilty of a crime.
* Morality would not be an issue, it would't even be a word in the dictionary.
* Commerce would be flowing, right out of the pockets of the poor and into the wallets of the greedy wealthy rich.
 
Wouldn't that be just dandy? Actually according to characters like Robin Hood it would be a cautic nightmare. But then, who needs history anyway?
 
Cheers
IBIJ

IBIJ
 
You like to predict & condemn the present and the future by quoting history. All the history of the Old Testament had a thread of predicting a new covenant coming. The new covenant, being the history of the New Testament.
 
The prediction did come to pass; Jesus Christ showed up on the scene right on schedule and started preaching salvation through the new covenant. But a certain percentage of the Jews refused to change, and are still refusing today.
 
Judging from your testimony you profess to be Christian but tend to preach the Jewish tradition or doctrine. It appears to me that you need to make up your mind, you need to decide whether you preach Judaism or Christianity. You can't have both by proclaiming a new religion or denomination.
 
Grandpa13

Hi GP13
 
Interesting analysis.
 
Are you aware that Christ was a Jew?
 
Further, as I pointed out in conversation with Hmmmm Christ Himself quoted the OT over 20% of His ministry as we find in written form today. Was He in error for looking back at history and using prophecy to predict the future including His own crucifixion?
 
Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.
 
If "it is written" was not a direct reference to OT prophecy then what was it?
 
Further, you reference Jesus Christ as being the "new covenant." That's interesting, but where would that be written? Bare in mind, I'm not herein saying that it is not the case; rather I'm very interested in knowing how you have come to this conclusion.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

IBIJ
 
 
 
2000 years of Catholic teaching.
 
grandpa13

 
"So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other."

Hi GP13
 
Thanks for that clarification. Now that I understand it comes from Catholicism rather than Scripture I feel so much the better.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

Hi Windmill
 
 
Absolutely, and how do we know what real genuine love is?
 
Cheers
IBIJ
 

IBIJ
 
If you check your history you will find the Catholic Church was in existance 350+ years before the New Testament Bible existed.
 
grandpa13

Hi GP13
 
Even if that were the case, so were the Pharasee's and Saducee's... what's your point?
 
Cheers
IBIJ