This is where I stand. I am Catholic, I believe my churches teachings, because they have been teaching Christ's word for over 2000 years. They were teaching Christ word for 380 years before the New Testament Bible was even written.
 
Now from my point of view as to where you stand. You are Seventh Day Adventist; your organization is hardly 150 years old. Your basis or roots you have to teach from are Walter Miller and Ellen G. White. History shows their prophesies to be false from the beginning. Instead of teaching people how to live happy, joyous and free, you teach and preach how to attack and prove the other churches wrong and that you are right, even though you are using there Bible to prove it.
 
So from where I stand, I can see no reason why I should dialogue with you and give you a free platform to preach your false prophet propaganda from.
 
Grandpa13

AMEN, "Grandpa13," I'm {mainstream} Protestant, and I feel the same way! {Leaving an opening, for 'IBIJ' to attack me, based on "feelings" have No place in following 'God's Word'}. -- I digress, in any event, I haven't read 'IBIJ's last post; nor will I Ever read any of his updated, and or past posts; as there's no further point in reading his 'SDA' 'party-line'
propaganda! .. and I'm not even exaggerating!
 
The pity of it, is that probably the bulk of the 'unsaved' will consider our own relayed 'messages,' as equally suspect, and to be avoided.
 
.. Fortunately, though, 'The Powers that Be' can overcome Any obstacle; vis-a-vis the agnostics & atheists!; even if it's something as 'common,' if actually, profound.. as the sunrise or sunset, and even more importantly, the various senses of right & wrong, {including, unconditional love}, imprinted into every person's conscience, {at least, initially}.. plus, the unspoken desire, and/or yearning, to know Him!!

Hi GP13
 
 
Does this include the NIV Bible largely translated by Catholic influences?
 
 
Catholicism was teaching God's Word this long before the New Testament? I wasn't aware that there were Catholics back then, where is your supporting documentation for this position?
 
 
Which is more important, the age of a denomination or the biblical teachings for which they do or do not follow? I'll agree that Catholicism is the largest religious organization throughout the entire world. Any idea what the 2nd largest is, even with there relative newness to the field as compared to Catholicism?
 
 
William Miller was a Millerite not an Adventist so his roots don't matter to Adventism either. Ellen G. White was and is indeed a tremendous influence to Adventism, which leads me to my next question. How many times have you ever read posts from me which quote Ellen G. White instead of the Word of God?
 
 
I'd love to hear exactly what history you are talking about here. To my knowledge, I know of none that Ellen G. White proclaimed that have not taken place. If you are referring to William Miller here, then it's important to note that I am an Adventist not a Millerite.
 
 
Actually, I teach people what God's Word says which leaves many denominations including Adventism in some respect with their proverbial pants down. This is what Scripture says...
 
Matthew 10
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e]
 
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
 
Peace is not the end all that ends all, rather it is something people are found to pursue to the detriment of following the truth.
 
1 Thessalonians 5:2-4
2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
 
4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
 
 
So in-other-words, since I use the Bible to teach the concepts I am teaching I am in error of teaching Ellen G. Whites doctrines? Logically, that would be the case to the extent that Ellen G. White followed the Bible since that is the source from which I draw my information. Thus if you are saying that since Ellen G. White followed the Bible and I am teaching others to do the same I am teaching the doctrines of Seventh Day Adventism; then I would have to conclude that you are correct. Further, it seems to me that Christ Himself would want us to follow His teachings as unfolded from within God's Holy Word would He not?
 
 
That is truly up to you. But as a Christian wouldn't the love of Christ cause you to "set me straight" by unfolding the true Word of God to me in hopes that I will "see the light"? How is it a demonstration of the love of Christ to allow me to continue to be deceived through my "so called" false teachings?
 
Cheers
IBIJ
 
 
 
 

Hi Hmmmm
 
 
When have I ever "attacked" you based on "feelings"? I have indeed attempted to unfold the Word of God to you based on what it says, and you have chosen to reject my attempts.
 
 
What an elquently elaborate cop out; at least GP13 didn't attempt this avenue of "escape". Carry on...
 
 
Which is the exact reason I have repeatedly told people to believe God's Word rather than my ramblings. God's Word is clear, follow it!
 
 
If I want to know my wife I have to persue a relationship with her. If I want to know a friend I have to persue a relationship with them. And if I want to know Christ I have to persue a relationship with Him. How in the world is that latter possible if I refuse to acknowledge and follow the precepts for which He has clearly established, even within His own life?
 
Cheers
IBIJ
 
 
 

What an admirable position to take when lacking evidance to support what one chooses to believe. Should I take my marbles and go home? LOL
 
Cheers
IBIJ

Hi Grandpo 13
 
This is IBIJ 2
 
I would like to know what prophecys that EG White spoke of that is not true and who is walter miller??? I don't know him I do know William Miller.
 
Our teachings are not base on them it is base on the Bible and the Bible alone. Base as it is and was before Catholic belief became part of society.
 
Let see she EG White for told of pluto being found and it was.
 
She told us that growning our own food would be needed and that is true if you are wanting to have good health as the reason for what is normally a meat salmonala (sorry spelling is not a strong point of mine) is the fact that science have been putting dna of fish and other animals in to the vegetables to make the food last longer.
 
She has given ad vice to have healthy family relationships.
 
She confurms and in lighten us as she points to the Bible and the Bible alone. She also said that if we would have and or would presently study our Bible the way we should there is no need for her writings.
 
She was a leader in dress reform for women not only in the church but across the board.
 
did you know she only had a 4 grade education - see how God can work through people when we are open to hear what God has to say.
 
So please tell me what prophecies is incorrect as there is a large book of all that has come true and science have proven it. That are people that are not Seventh-day Adventist.

This is too easy!
 
 
In 1862 she predicted that "when England does declare war [against the North, during the civil war]. all nations will have an interest of their own to serve, and there will be general war, general confusion." The result will be that "this nation [the United States] will...be humbled into the dust".
Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 259.
 
Just a little bit off the mark there.
 
 
Ellen G. White taught that wigs make people lose their reason and go hopelessly insane. Christian Mothers, No. 2, p. 121.
 
Most of Ellen G. White's concerns over diet were in an effort to control what she considered to be an excessive sex drive in the male. She devoted endless pages to discussing "secret vice" (masturbation) and blamed the practice for a wide range of diseases. Here, in "Solemn Appeal" page 12 are a few of the diseases said to be caused by "secret vice"
 
"...dyspepsia, spinal complaint, headache, epilepsy, impaired eyesight, palpitation of the heart, pain in the side, bleeding at the lungs, spasms of the heart and lungs, diabetes, incontinence of urine, fluor albus or whites, inflammation of the urinary organs... rheumatism, affected perspiration, consumption, asthma, catarrah, polypus of the heart, affection of the bones, fevers, ..etc. etc.
 
 
 
She also developed a "reform dress" on instructions from God, which was a bulky affair with pants under a long dress. She gave up on wearing hers finally, and so did the other women, after years of suffering discomfort.
 
 
 
Ellen G. White claims that blood was carried into the first apartment of the Old Testament tabernacle on a daily basis, Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 354-355.
 
Ellen G. White taught that eggs excite your animal passions. Test. Vol. 2, p. 362.
 
I'd like to see those 2 in the bible.
 
 
I'm going to leave that one alone.
 
 
George Carlin passed away yesterday. I urge you to find his writings and recordings and read/listen to them. Open your eyes to the world around you.
 
--SoCo

IBIJ 2
 
I will answer each one of your mis quotes as I have her books right here and some that you list I don't believe are any of her books as I have a large amount of them and the once I don't I have a list of thier names.
Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 259.
is a mis quote.
 
"The escaped slaves have been told by their masters that the Northern men wanted to get possession of them that they might cruelly misuse them; that the abolitionists would treat them worse than they had been treated while in slavery. All manner of horrible stories have been repeated in their ears to make them detest the North, and yet they have had a confused idea that some hearts in the North felt for their grievances and would yet make an effort to help them. This has been the only star which has shed its glimmering light upon their distressed and gloomy bondage. The manner in which the poor slaves have been treated has led them to believe that their masters have told them the truth in these things. And yet a national fast is proclaimed! Saith the Lord: "Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?" When our nation observes the fast which God has chosen, then will He accept their prayers as far as the war is concerned; but now they enter not into His ear. He turns from them, they are disgusting to Him. It is so managed that those who would undo the heavy burdens and break every yoke are placed under censure, or removed from responsible stations, or their lives are planned away by those who "fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness." {1T 258.1}
 
I was shown that if the object of this war had been to exterminate slavery, then, if desired, England would have helped the North. But England fully understands the existing feelings in the Government, and that the war is not to do away slavery, but merely to preserve the Union; and it is not for her interest to have it preserved. Our Government has been very proud and independent. The people of this nation have exalted themselves to heaven, and have looked down upon monarchical governments, and triumphed in their boasted liberty, while the institution of slavery, that was a thousand times worse than the tyranny exercised by
259
monarchial governments, was suffered to exist and was cherished. In this land of light a system is cherished which allows one portion of the human family to enslave another portion, degrading millions of human beings to the level of the brute creation. The equal of this sin is not to be found in heathen lands. {1T 258.2}
 
Said the angel: "Hear, O heavens, the cry of the oppressed, and reward the oppressors double according to their deeds." This nation will yet be humbled into the dust. England is studying whether it is best to take advantage of the present weak condition of our nation, and venture to make war upon her. She is weighing the matter, and trying to sound other nations. She fears, if she should commence war abroad, that she would be weak at home, and that other nations would take advantage of her weakness. Other nations are making quiet yet active preparations for war, and are hoping that England will make war with our nation, for then they would improve the opportunity to be revenged on her for the advantage she has taken of them in the past and the injustice done them. A portion of the queen's subjects are waiting a favorable opportunity to break their yoke; but if England thinks it will pay, she will not hesitate a moment to improve her opportunities to exercise her power and humble our nation. When England does declare war, all nations will have an interest of their own to serve, and there will be general war, general confusion. England is acquainted with the diversity of feeling among those who are seeking to quell the rebellion. She well knows the perplexed condition of our Government; she has looked with astonishment at the prosecution of this war--the slow, inefficient moves, the inactivity of our armies, and the ruinous expenses of our nation. The weakness of our Government is fully open before other nations, and they now conclude that it is because it was not a monarchial government, and they admire their own government, and look down, some with pity, others ...."
 
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates$fn=default.htm$vid=default

ibibj2
 
Ellen G. White taught that wigs make people lose their reason and go hopelessly insane. Christian Mothers, No. 2, p. 121.
 
No such book. There for no such quote.

IBIJ2
 
Most of Ellen G. White's concerns over diet were in an effort to control what she considered to be an excessive sex drive in the male. She devoted endless pages to discussing "secret vice" (masturbation) and blamed the practice for a wide range of diseases. Here, in "Solemn Appeal" page 12 are a few of the diseases said to be caused by "secret vice"
 
"...dyspepsia, spinal complaint, headache, epilepsy, impaired eyesight, palpitation of the heart, pain in the side, bleeding at the lungs, spasms of the heart and lungs, diabetes, incontinence of urine, fluor albus or whites, inflammation of the urinary organs... rheumatism, affected perspiration, consumption, asthma, catarrah, polypus of the heart, affection of the bones, fevers, ..etc. etc.
 
Again no such book written by EG White

IBIJ2
 
Where do you get this quote or idea
She also developed a "reform dress" on instructions from God, which was a bulky affair with pants under a long dress. She gave up on wearing hers finally, and so did the other women, after years of suffering discomfort.
 
 
This is far from the truth
 
She was the first woman to raise the skirt lenght so it wasn't draging in the diret of what animals left behind as one would cross the street she also added color to the wardrobe. She also pulled the neckline down and got rid of those things tieing up the waist so one couldn't breath.

IBIJ2
 
Ellen G. White claims that blood was carried into the first apartment of the Old Testament tabernacle on a daily basis, Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 354-355.
 
so can you tell me about the temple and the meaning to each part of the temple and what took place there and why?
 
Sin offerings where brought daily to the temple and the blood from the lamb was placed on the horns of the alter and then some of the blood was taken into the holy place every day. Once a year it was taken into the most holy place.
 
The study of the Jewish systm is very interesting and educational as to the process that is taking place in heaven.
 
Most of it would be in exodus and deu

IBIJ2
 
Ellen G. White taught that eggs excite your animal passions. Test. Vol. 2, p. 362.

 
So can you tell me the effects of meat and animal products on the body? Can you tell me how meat is to be prepared Biblically if you are to eat it? No fat no blood is to be eaten and why was this?
 
Can you tell me the difference it makes in prisoners that eat no animal products and those that do? Believe me it is a very big difference!!
 
Try 90% do not reafend verses 90% that reafend.
 
Try not eating any animal products for 3 months and see the difference it makes.

IBIJ2
 
George Carlin passed away yesterday. I urge you to find his writings and recordings and read/listen to them. Open your eyes to the world around you.
 
I choose to read the Bible God's Word when I have time to read or listen for fun. I personally enjoy reading God's Word daily and applying it to my life.
 
I do not know George Carlin who he is or what he believes
 
I would say that is the line the devil gave in the garden it will open your eyes and look where that got us. Not to good of a place.
 
It will open your eyes ... you will not surely die... where the first lies we where told.

You should not have replyed.
 
It is better to be thought a fool,rather then to open ones mouth and remove all dout.
 
D

 
 
Many have lost their reason, and become hopelessly insane, by following this deforming fashion. Yet the slaves to fashion will continue to thus dress their heads, and suffer horrible disease and premature death, rather than be out of fashion. {RH, October 17, 1871 par. 11}
 
That's quoted from the website you provided:
 
Words to Christian Mothers - By E.G. White On the Subject of Life, Health, and Happiness No 2
 
There is a reason the I*IJ doesn't quote EG White on this BB. We do our homework very well.
 
--SoCo

 
You missed the point. You said that Ellen's writings were biblically related. Teaching that eggs excite animal passions is not in the bible. End of story.
 
Find it in the bible or change your statement.
 
Did jesus feed fish to the masses? Aren't fish animals?
 
--SoCo

From the website that you provided:
 
 
A Solemn Appeal, Chapter 1 Appeal to Mothers
 
How much more of this do we have to go through?
 
--SoCo

 
First, the book of genesis is a fairy tale.
 
There's actually a lot of allegory in it. Don't you find it odd that god didn't want them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge?
 
What kind of god doesn't want you to have knowledge?
 
Second, you aren't being offered an ultimatum. You can experience all that life has for you to experience, and then choose what to believe for yourself. Unless you have allowed external forces to limit your choices, then, of course, you are in a cult.
 
--Soco

It was the knowledge of good and evil SC... and no, God never intended us to have a knowledge of evil.
 
Cheers
IBIJ