God hates Oregon Teenagers
 
Wed Jun 18, 8:25 PM ET

GLADSTONE, Ore. - Authorities say a teenager from a faith-healing family died from an illness that could have been easily treated, just a few months after a toddler cousin of his died in a case that has led to criminal charges.
Tuesday's death of 16-year-old Neil Beagley, however, may not be a crime because Oregon law allows minors 14 and older to decide for themselves whether to accept medical treatment.
 
"All of the interviews from last night are that he did in fact refuse treatment," police Sgt. Lynne Benton said Wednesday. "Unless we can disprove that, charges probably won't be filed in this case."
 
An autopsy Wednesday showed Beagley died of heart failure caused by a urinary tract blockage.
 
He likely had a congenital condition that constricted his urinary tract where the bladder empties into the urethra, and the condition of his organs indicates he had multiple blockages during his life, said Dr. Clifford Nelson, deputy state medical examiner for Clackamas County.
 
"You just build up so much urea in your bloodstream that it begins to poison your organs, and the heart is particularly susceptible," Nelson said.
 
Nelson said a catheter would have saved the boy's life. If the condition had been dealt with earlier, a urologist could easily have removed the blockage and avoided the kidney damage that came with the repeated illnesses, Nelson said.
 
Benton said a board member of the Followers of Christ church contacted the authorities after Beagley died at his family's home. The teen had been sick about a week, and church members and his family had gathered to pray Sunday when his condition worsened, Benton said.
 
In March, the boy's 15-month-old cousin Ava Worthington died at home from bronchial pneumonia and a blood infection.
 
Her parents, Carl and Raylene Worthington, also belong to the church. They have pleaded not guilty to manslaughter and criminal mistreatment, and their defense attorneys have indicated they will use a religious freedom defense.
 
After earlier deaths involving children of Followers of Christ believers, a 1999 Oregon law struck down religious shields for parents who treat their children solely with prayer. No one had been prosecuted under it until the Worthingtons' case.
 
Members and former members of the church in Oregon City have told The Oregonian newspaper in previous interviews that the congregation has 1,200 people. It has no apparent ties to other congregations or any mainstream denomination.
 
 
--SoCo

"What do you mean God dropped the ball? Haven't you heard the story of the guy setting on top of his house in the flood? A canoe came by, he was asked to get in. He said, "No God will save me." Then a boat came by, "No God will save me," then a helicopter, same thing "God will save me." He drowned; then he asked God why didn't you save me? God said, "For god sake, I sent you a canoe, a boat and a helicopter but you refused to get in."
 
God created this world with a natural order of things. Everything you will ever need is here. When you're sick you go to the Doctor or hospital. When you're hungry you eat, when you need money you go to work, when you need a ride you buy a car, when you are depressed, uninspired and down, you go to church,(not a cult). God does not drop the ball, people do.
 
Grandpa13

Amen GP13, everything is fine, the universe could not be in better hands,the natural order is running like a Swiss watch. The 2000 children who will starve to death today...well it's their own fault for not eating, isn't it. I actually care a great deal for the millions of people suffering in the world, and it makes me sick and angry,to listen to you pious people of faith spouting on about god being caring and loving. I will say it again..if god exists, then he's an evil bastard. And as for dropping the ball..I don't think he's capable of catching it in the first place. Nothing's gonna change your world, is it. Keep on making your excuses for god, and ignore what is happening around you. Meanwhile to change the mood, what a great video, of a great song. Lifts the soul.It's also a metaphor for people who can't see what goes on. Interestingly, she finds refuge under the Milkshake sign. Is that a revelation of prophecy or what.

.. "Job," {from, the Old Testament} also was initially sure in his own mind, that he {Job} had a bunch of questions, {Re. his own 'sufferings,' and bordering on the accusatory}, for God; of which Job was apparently fairly convinced, of his own 'better judgement,' vis-a-vis, "Jehovah." -- In a 'nutshell,' Job received, what is undoubtedly, 'the Mother-of-All,''dressing-downs,' From, God! {see, below}.
 
"God Answers" – Job 38-41
 
Job 38.2-3 – “Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.”
 
Job had been pleading for God to answer him. God was nowhere to be found for Job. Finally, God answers. But He did not speak up in order justify Job as Job had hoped He would. Instead God questioned Job. In fact, in chapters 38-41 God asks Job seventy-two questions. Each one is a rhetorical question for which Job has no answer. By asking Job where he was when God laid the foundation of the world and other similar questions, he reminded Job that his wisdom, knowledge and understanding was extremely limited.
 
In the middle of all these questions, Job gave a brief reply. He said, “I am unworthy – how can I reply to you? I will say no more” (40.4-5). Job realized that He has no right to question God. Job presumed to know more than he did. Job did not know enough to complain and question God. We see only a tiny bit of the whole picture. God sees it all. The Apostle Paul wrote, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” (Romans 11.33).
 
We like to think that we know what is best and what is going on. We don’t. We see only a small part of the big picture. Even if we did see the whole picture, we would not be able to understand it. We are in no position to question the motives, wisdom, judgment, understanding and actions of God. God put Job in his place by reminding of how little he knew. God knows everything and His ways are perfect and best. The next time you are tempted to question or complain to God, remember Job and remember whom you are questioning. It might just cause you to trust the only One who is truly trustworthy.
Posted by Michael Alcorn {'Web'-blog}

What a Crock Of $hit!
Don't even think about how F@cked #p things are . Its gods will everything is fine . No sense trying to solve any problem because this is the way god has planned it. There is no way i could possibly understand any of this bull$hit.Even if god told me.Relax!be happy.I just wish i was'nt going to hell according to you.
 
 
D

Doorman's got it right here. Let's follow your logic to it's ultimate conclusion.
 
Premise
Man's knowledge is limited
God's knowledge is infinite
 
Conclusion
Man cannot know god's wisdom
 
Other valid conclusions:
Man cannot know god's motives
Man cannot know god's intentions
Man cannot know god's disposition
 
Which supports grevillea's idea of an evil bastard god.
 
Throw in some of gramps ideas:
 
The natural order drives life
People must help themselves
 
Sounds to me like there is no need for god. The established natural order can usher events to their ultimate end just fine.
 
 
--SoCo

You're putting words in God's mouth, so-to-speak, "DOORMAN," when you said, "No need for us {humans} to solve any problems, because, "Everything's fine." Says, Who?! ..Certainly Not, God/'JC,' who were Both aware, Long before you were even born, {DOORMAN}, that we're all existing, in a "fallen" {from, 'God's grace} physical world, that is temporarily under the partial, {though Not insignifigant} influence, {as opposed to control} of "Satan"; aka., "the Father of All Lies."
 
Obviously, "Satan" has already caused you to believe at least One {big} lie,{DOORMAN}; which is, that God {apparently} doesn't think that there's any need for Anyone, {humans, included}, to solve any problems!? ..N-O-T!!
.. or for that matter, your expressed belief that I happen to know your own, Eternal destination; another, "N-O-T"!!; to paraphrase a Scripture passage, 'Only God, can know the heart of man'... and to the degree that you thought I Was standing in Judgement of you, {among others}, I was only repeating what 'JC,' Himself said{!}.. "I Am The Door, No one can come to the Father, but through Me."
 
'FYI,' God/JC commissioned US, {even, the materially 'better off' 'unbelievers'}, as I understand it; to alleviate the sufferings of those less fortunate than us; All the while, keeping-in-mind, that.. according to Scripture; that your own, or Anyone's, 'Good Works'.. without, Faith.. are as "filthy rags," in 'the Eyes of' God; according to Scripture! {'google,' "filthy rags," if you're doubtful}.
 
Wouldn't you find it either hillarious, and-or pathetic, "DOORMAN," if you happened to know that, let's say, a house spider that you 'dispatched of' the other day, was Really 'ticked-off' at you, for the distress that you caused it? .. assuming, for the moment, that All living things, 'live on' in some other dimension; which, I have No idea, whether they do, or not.
 
.. And, for that matter, if that be the case, wouldn't your Own appreciation of 'the big picture' of things, {DOORMAN}, be At Least of the same ratio-proportions, when comparing yourself, to this hypothetical "spider," as that of, between yourself, and the God of the Bible{?!}...
whom, to your own credit, you do Not disrespect, {if not, necessarily believe in}, anywhere Near, to the same degree, as a certain other 'Caissa' poster! {no, names/'handles,' please}.

It occurs to me that you guys must really believe in God; otherwise you wouldn't be so adamant about discrediting him. I really don't care what you believe, but I don't understand why you are so set on changing my beliefs.
 
It doesn't take a space scientist to figure out why people are starving in Africa or any where on this earth. The same reason the boy died in Oregon. Some people go to hell from love, they love the wrong things.
 
Incedently; In 2007 Saint Vincent's Homeless Shelter in Las Vegas Nevada, USA (which is operated by Catholic Charities) put out 600,000 meals for the homeless and aged . That's just in Las Vegas, not to mention the rest of the world. This is true because I was there.
 
Now that is what the "God" people are doing for the starving people of this world. Now tell me about what the "Godless" people are doing?
 
 
Grandpa13

GP13, I am not set on changing your beliefs. I don't want you to change your beliefs. All that I am doing is highlighting some of the issues that religious people have to turn a blind eye to. This is a response to the glut of religious posts. This is a chess site after all. However, I simply say that if you or IBIJ or HOM, exercise your right to post on religion, then I will respond from an Atheist viewpoint. And , humbly, the christians are not coming up smelling of roses in the debates. IBIJ, has at last seen the light and decided to focus his attention elsewhere; a sensible choice. The moron from Oregon will be a tougher nut to crack.Honestly, I have always respected your attitude, in quietly standing up for what you believe in .Now, I am going back to my prayers to have HOM committed to a looney bin, so peace and goodwill can be restored to the BB.

Just because an atheist does not believe in “God” does not indicate that they do not have a commitment to the well being of other people. In fact, the atheistic perspective indicates a strong affirmation of humanity, without passing the buck of responsibility to the intangible concept of a Deity.
 
The atheistic people I know are educators and healers, artists and social activists and scientists who develop new systems that benefit people, both atheists and religious afficionados. They are, if anything, more firmly invested in benefitting humanity as a whole than the religious folks I know who are selective about who benefits from their efforts, preferring members of their own group or prospective “converts,” and shunning the “disbelievers.”
 
The misconception about atheists, that they are “against God” and all that this stands for, here extrapolated to assume they are against people and do no good works to benefit others, is just more of the same propaganda against anyone who stands out against a System that is structured to keep the little cogs in line, grinding out money for The Big Machine. And there’s no better way to accomplish this than through organized religion.
 
Monica A. Harris

Last May or June of 2007 I posted my first post, remarking that a chess site seemed to be an odd place to be debating religion and quoting the bible.I was reminded that this was a Miscellaneous BB. I have been defending myself ever since.
 
I try to accept people places and things as they are. I have no particular resentment against any group of people. But I believe in defending my own beliefs when they are attacked.
 
Grandpa13

I haven't yet read the variety of posts to this topic. I will try to do so today.
 
However, what would happen if God removed all evil from this world? We would see that their was no consequences for our actions and continue doing the same thing over again.
 
1. God created man and woman.
 
Gen 1
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,...
 
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good...
 
2. Man created disobedience also known as sin...
 
Genesis 2:17 (Command)
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
 
Genesis 3:4 (Temptation)
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
 
Genesis 5:5 (Consequence)
Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.
 
3. The final conclusion of sin is death.
 
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
 
4. God loves man so much that despite our choices then and our choices now, He paid the price He did not have to pay so that we might receive eternal life.
 
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 
Notice that God loves the entire world and not just those who will choose to follow Him. Notice also that the free gift that we receive is eternal life.
 
Conclusion...
1. If we go to Heaven immediately upon death then we are already eternal creatures and this is not a gift we recieve. That would be a direct contradiction of Scripture.
 
Romans 8
23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
 
2. If we live eternally in hell then we are eternal beings. This again directly contradicts the Word of God.
 
John 5:29
and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.
 
So you are left with one of two choices.
 
1. Choose life and live.
2. Choose your own selfish ways and die.
 
Revelation 20
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
 
Salvation is a free gift for all to receive, but you must be the one to accept or reject it. Whichever action you choose has direct consequences.
 
1. Accept the gift and eternal life will be yours at the resurrection of the righteous.
 
2. Reject the gift and eternal death will be yours at the resurrection of the unrighteous.
 
Happy Sabbath
IBIJ