Romans 1-21to 32
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorâ014who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
 

#ucken perverts!
I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know. I'm gonna stop doing all that weird $hit.
 
D
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A little sarcastic, but at least I got a response.
 
What make me feel bad is when I post a subjest and get no response at all.
 
grandpa13

Amazing, if one cannot interpret the Word of God, then why waste your time trying to teach others the truth you are attempting to teach unless the best interpretation of God's Word is to believe exactly what it says and teach that. Seems to me, this has been my practice from the very start.
 
However, since the word "pervert" is not being used in this passage are you sure this applies to "perverts" or is this the result of sin within a person that rejects the Word of God? Perhaps not all, but some... let's look at the verses you left out to answer that question.
 
Romans 1
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
 
26Because of this...
 
Seems to me it is the result of choosing to reject God and live a life of depravity instead. Unless, of course, one were to argue that the author really meant - live a party life in Tahati - instead. God's Word is clear, it is man's rejection of that Word that makes things so confusing.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

What page are guys on? I can't find this crap anywhere in my book. We are reading from the Rig Veda right? I assume if the gods have something important to say they wouldn't wait thousands of years to say it. It would be for the benefit of all mankind from the beginning. No? Well, maybe you are right. I have to read that one book that seems to be helping millions of people find their spiritual ways. Can you pass me the Qur'an?
 
--SoCo

..Quoting Too many verses from the Bible to support your 'point',
{a 'faux pas' I've made myself on occasion} has a parallel to
reading a book about 'higher math'; when it's been said that for
every mathmatical equation that's contained in a given math book
or 'tome'{ie. large book}, one can safely assume that the poten-
tial audience that will be reached, can be cut-in-half!; if not
the same number of reader's attention spans!
 
..In so many words, one person's well-documented effort, is
another person's "Rant"!
 
{Another reason why there are relatively few 'experts' in Most
fields {of endeavor}.
..Except for, lawyers and realtors.. {How do they absorb all that
Boring B-ll Sh!t, anyways?!} 0:

To say nothing of perverting English grammar. It is readers' attention spans.

IBIJ
 
There you go again, your so busy trying to read your beliefs in the message that you miss the whole point.
 
Read #27, It says; In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their PERVERSION. (Now if that isn't talking about PERVERTS, you will have to explain it to me. Or maybe you prefer the word GAY)
 
Romans 1: 18, Doesn't deal directly with this subject?
 
SC
The Rig-Veda was composed somewhere between 1700-1100 BC. I suspect this subject is mentioned in there too.
Gamma
I agree with you, one persons well documented opinion is just another persons, "Rant".
 
Grandpa13
 
 
 

Gramps, the Rig has a rich oral tradition and it is quite possible it's origins are earlier than 1700 BC. Although, it is inarguably much earlier than the NT that everyone around here is so fond of quoting.
 
-SoCo

Hi GP
 
Let's look at the logic of these verses.
 
Verse 27: In the same way...
 
In what same way?
 
Verse 26: ...Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
 
Evidently, in the same way as that which the women were doing. However, to read the last part of verse 26 while ignoring the first part would be quite illogical. Therefore here is the first part of verse 26.
 
Verse 26: Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.
 
Because of what did God give them over to this type of life style?
 
Verse 25: They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorâ014who is forever praised. Amen.
 
According to Scripture they fell into this type of life style for two reasons.
1. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie
2. They worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator
 
And if we read verse 24, the depravity of man is further positioned by the Words of God Himself.
 
Verse 24: Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
 
Besides understanding exactly why God gave them over to their sinful desires, we need to find out why this verse starts with the word "therefore".
 
Verse 21-23: 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
 
They built statues and figures to pray to which led them to sexual perversions, including being perverts; but that certainly isn't the entirity of the issue. However, how do we know that these people "knew God" as it says in verse 21?
 
Verse 19-20: 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitiesâ014his eternal power and divine natureâ014have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
 
God has made His ways plain to all man even thru creation itself, not to mention various other ways too. Yet they threw thiw knowledge aside for their own wisdom instead which led them to the sexual perversions that we spoke of at the end of this chapter.
 
With that said we reach verse 18
 
Verse 18: The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
 
Since man has choosen their ways instead of following God they natural outcome is perversion in all directions. Perversion is not just sexual, but any sin perverts the mind and life of the one doing it. So this verse is indeed very much tied to the end of this section. Perhaps that's why someone somewhere chose to label this section of Scripture as "God's Wrath Against Mankind".
 
Doing a word study on the word perversion might lead to an interesting conversation or two.
 
Happy Sabbath
IBIJ
 
 

IBIJ
 
Why complicate it? Anyone with a third grade education would know that Paul's Letter to the Romans, verse 21-32 is talking about homosexual perverts. There are homosexuals, (ordinary people that are not attracted to women) and then there are homosexuals that are sexually active, they pervert their sex lives. (They self destruct)
 
I would hate to be in your Bible class. I would really be confused.
 
Grandpa13

Of course you would Gramps!
 
But don't worry, they would share with you all the writings and teachings of the prophetess Ellen G White, no relation to Barry, to guide your way into the Catholic bashing cult and help you learn the important stuff. You know, like that the pope is the anti-christ and women that wear wigs will go crazy.
 
Wait till ya hear what happened in 1844?
 
But don't worry, you would then be part of the one true faith and all the other infidels would be punished. Unfortunately, you don't get the 72 virgins with type of radicalism though. Sorry.
 
--SoCo

Then there are perverts that like monkeys and migets and whiskey. Add A little blow Maybe gerbils YEE HAW Going to hell BABY!! Please pray for me Thanks . Also donations are being accepted at doorman@caissa.com. Give all you can. I need very exspensive exorcism,PPO won't cover it. They said pre exsisting condition. Bull$hit i know,F%ckng american health care.

Hey GP
 
Sure, homosexuality is indeed one of the things it is talking about. However, if we look at the affect instead of the cause we miss the entire point of this writing. What got them there is sin, and that is what Paul is preaching about, not just homosexuality. Otherwise why would Paul be discussing trading the truth of God for a lie? Certainly that is not a homosexual act in and of itself. It's just as Doorman pointed out, a little step away from God's Holy Word leads to great depravity.
 
32 I applied my heart to what I observed
and learned a lesson from what I saw:
 
33 A little sleep, a little slumber,
a little folding of the hands to rest-
 
34 and poverty will come on you like a bandit
and scarcity like an armed man.
Proverbs 24:32-34
 
There is no greater poverty than lacking the common sense to follow the ways of God.
 
Happy Sabbath
IBIJ

Hey SC
 
Your logic is impecable.
 
1. Please quote me the last time I used any of Ellen G White's writtings on this MISC BB?
 
2. How many times have you heard me say that Catholics would be in Heaven? Hardly a stance for Catholic bashing wouldn't you say. It's the system, not the misguided people within that I stand against. Read Daniel 7 sometime, and you'll find an excellent discription of the Pope!!!! (Errrr... Daniel's a part of the Bible not Ellen White's writtings... for the record)
 
3. Women that wear wigs will go crazy? Where do you get that one from.
 
4. 1844 was the Millerites... we are the Adventist... would you please get your presumed "cults" in the right order?
 
5. Noah (one of many Bible characters) was deemed crazy as he kept working on his boat for over 100 years; yes crazy indeed. That is till it actually started to rain. Not so crazy after all, was he.
 
Yes, impecable logic.... impecably incorrect.
 
Happy Sabbath
IBIJ
 

Why thank you for the compliment.
 
1. Who cares if you've quoted her or not? Your church is built on her plagiarisms. You've spoken about the lifestyle choices your church dictates, no smoking, drinking, eating meat, ect, as well as the idea that Satan has control of the church. That's all Ellen right?
 
2. You stand against the Catholic church, so I stand against the Adventist cult. Fair is fair right?
 
3. Christian Mothers #2 p121
 
4. The difference is that Billy Miller realized he was wrong and repented, Adventists started a cult around a false belief. Cults beget more dangerous cults. Vernon Howell, aka David Koresh, was an adventist.
 
5. Noah/Gilgamesh was indeed not crazy. But if you believe the literal version of a biblical flood, you may want to get checked out.
 
--SoCo

IBIJ
 
In regard to your previous post.
Why would we look at the affect instead of the cause, with out a cause there would be no effect.
 
You say sin is what got them there. I beg to differ, what got them there is wrong actions. Sin is the name of wrong actions; you can't sin before you have committed the act.
 
Look, I can't debate with you, you don't use any logic or own opinions. You try to use the Bible as a book of scientific facts to back up your illogical arguments.
 
The Bible is everything but a book of scientific facts. To me, it is a book of history, truth, inspiration, faith, hope, and instruction on how to live a good life, how to love thy neighbor as thy self. Not to win and argument.
 
Grandpa13
 
 
 
 

I'm really disappointed that you see a homosexual act as a wrong act and therefore a sin. Being gay is not a choice, and it is only natural for 2 people who are in love to behave like lovers. Is it a case of ...love thy neighbor as long as they are not gay.

Hi Grrrr
 
On this and any issue, what "I think" pales in comparison to what "God says". There are much clearer verses on this topic that GP could have rallied to for his point to be made.
 
Consider what was happening in Sodom and Gomorrah during the time of their fiery destructions for example. And if that's not clear enough, try...
 
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 
Where it spells things out quite clearly. However, it is important to note that homosexuality is merely one of a number of sin's that one can fall into. It is not a greater sin, but rather sin period; just as all the others mentioned in this passage.
 
People may say that this sin is hereditarial, people may say that they evolved from a paperclip... no matter what people say, neither has been conclusively proven to be true through the demonstration of secular science or God's Word.
 
However, identifying a sin condition does not mean such a person should be rejected. Disciplined perhaps, within the confines of church doctrines but certainly not rejected. Only when they choose to thumb their nose at the corrective actions does separation begin to take place. Yet even then to damn them to an eternal separation from God thru their stubborness would be a sin on the part of those administring correction. We are to love those caught in sin while not allowing that self same sin to cause others to go the same direction as best as possible. While always being ready and willing to welcome them back into fellowship with full forgiveness when the sin has been stripped away from their lives.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

Grevillea
 
Being gay or homosexual may not be a choice; it's a natural state of being.
 
But having unnatural perverted sex is a choice. It certainly isn't what you would call virtuous conduct. It violates the laws of nature, the laws of God and all the other laws known to mankind. It can only lead to heart ache and tears. It doesn't take a space scientist to figure that out. No offense intended, it's just how I see it.
 
Grandpa13