Looks like its time to get back to playing chess.
 
grandpa13

Hi GP
 
Unless, of course, you have any other questions to ask. Which does remind me that my question still remains unanswered.
 
Cheers
IBIJ
 
PS: I hope that Gamma is okay, he normally isn't 100% silent for long periods of time.

Hi grandpa13
 
How long have you played chess? How did you learn?
 
IBIJ2

IBIJ
 
You are persistent aren't you?
 
I learned to play chess when I was a kid on the farm. I dont play to be famous, I play because I like to play. That was 70 years ago.
 
You say your question remains unanswered. As I recall your question was, "How does a soul get to heaven without the body?"
 
I will give you a little lesson in logic, and then you figure it out.
As you know the body is the material part of man and the soul is the immaterial part of man
 
I suspect you have heard of John Wayne the movie star. We both know John has been dead for years and his body is rotting in the ground.
Well; last night I watched John Wayne in a two hour western on TV. I could see him, hear him and understand him although I know his body wasn't there, but the immaterial part of John Wayne was bigger than life.
 
Thats what man can do, imagine what God can do.
 
Grandpa13

Hi Grandpa 13
 
I guess you wrote to both of us;-)
 
I don't know chess as art is my specialty. It is interesting just not for me.
 
As far as the pictures that isn't very impressive as knowing the tricks of the trade desent leave me with any questions. Sense God says they are one and that He called Lazerus to come forth not down and the word and puts them together.
 
Why are we told to stay away from people that brings the "soul" to us from the dead - lets see Saul did just that and he was condimed by God. So why are we saying that it is true when God says it isn't so?
 
Saul lost the battle because of it and the spirit Devil feard for his life. Saul then really went crazy and lost being king.
 
IBIJ2

IBIJ
 
As a self appointed prophet and interpreter of Gods word, you are trying to take history and predict the present and the future.
 
King Saul was around a long time before Christ appeared on the scene with a new covenent, which changed us believers future forever. What Christ taught us had nothing to do with King Sauls behavior in history.

The non believers are still preaching King Saul. And you know what they did to Christ

grandpa13

IBIJ2;
 
Here is scripture to refute your position, given for perhaps the fourth time on this site. Begin in Luke 16:19-31. We are told some things in this parable that picture for us what happens after our deaths. At this point in time(prior to crucifixion) what is being plainly shown is that upon death a person's soul went to hades. There were two sections to hades; paradise/Abraham's bosom and hell. The beggar had accepted Christ so he was born by the angels to paradise while the rich man who had rejected Christ went to hell. Both could see each other in hades, which is not the same place as heaven if you read scripture literally and compare it with other scriptures. Yes, Jesus was teaching the Pharisees that even if someone who was dead were to return no one would listen to them. But He was also teaching about life after death, at that point in time. The rich man was in torment(vs 23) and desired any kind of relief that he could obtain(vs24). Now skip ahead to Luke 23:39-43 where Jesus is speaking with the thieves up on the crosses with Him. Notice that He tells one thief, "Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise." Is that meaning in heaven? No! In paradise down in hades as has been the case up to this point in time. Now look to Acts 2:25-27 where we read in verse 27 that God will not leave our souls in hell. Oh, so they are going to go somewhere? Oh, we do have souls? Separate from our bodies? At any rate, looking at II Corinthians 12:2-4 we see that by some event paradise is now up in heaven and not in hades with hell. Having something to do with Christ's resurrection? Then of course we move on to Revelation 6:9 where we see "under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:". I take the Word literally for what it says here, that souls were under that altar, it is not figurative nor symbolic. If you say that our soul is our body, then how do you explain those "bodies" being up in heaven underneath that altar? I rest my case.
 
JEBUS

Hi GP13
 
Why should I try to predict the past, present, and future when God's Word does a very good job of that? I'll I'm trying to do is read the document and report the findings. Seems that this is what we are called to do, no?
 
2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 
How can we be correctly handling the Word of Truth, if we are not in the active process of handling it in the first place?
 
New covenant? What new covenant?
 
Yes, I'm aware of what they did to Christ thru the instigation of the religious leaders of that day. Only one response for that...
 
Philippians 1:21
For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

Hi Jebus
 
"parable"
 
IBIJ

Hi Jebus
 
You have only started you case as I have study these verses sence childhood and they don't support what you are saying.
 
one Culture nethier groups of Jewish believe in the seperation of body and soul. Second if this is true that there is a seperation of body and soul then why would it be wrong bad evil to speak to these soul and gain wisedom only we are told that "they no not anything" If they know not anything then how is there any life in them. Ecc 9:5
 
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.
 
 
The Parable is saying even if we did have spirits and if there was such a thing as this it wouldn't make a differents in what we believe as we are a stubburn people that will not listen. Thus the parable as they where a people saying only if Moses where here we would know what to do and listen to him only the people didn't liste when he was with them but did their own thing in worshipping other gods then the true God any time he was gone for a few days. Jesus was saying you are no different then your forefathers you haven't changed. You haven't grown up in building a relationship instead you are wanting to ride in on the coat tails of someone else.
 
A Parable is just that it is something abstract for one to think out side the box. It appears you are still thinking in the box.
 
So Can you tell me what religouse cultures around the Jewish nation at that time that would have influence them or create questions for Jesus to use the words hades - hell and use this parable for them to learn that even if this could be true it would not make a difference.
 
Life after death - when Jesus return and raises us from the dead. Why would we want to be in heaven only to come back down and be in the ground for Jesus to come and call us forth with the trumpet and the shout of the Ark Angle? That is sort of like one group that believes that we were perfect beings that choose to come here so we could learn all about hate and crime and that we would have to get it right before we could make it back to the perfect world. They teach that that idea is biblical yet it is no where to be found. So why when every eye shall see Jesus coming in the clouds of glory will we be coming back down from heaven to be put back to death so we can full feel Bible truths that that is where we will be coming from the ground not hell not hades not heaven.
 
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
 
Well I think I have given enough for you to chow on. I will be able to follow up with the other half later. It would be hard to get it all fit in here and you or anyone else still be wanting to read it all at once.. I know I wouldn't.
 
IBIJ2 part two coming in a day or two depending on work.

IBIJ
 
You said, "what new covenant?" I am referring to the Bible quotes below.
 
 
1. Jeremiah 31:31
"The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

2. Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

3. 1 Corinthians 11:25
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."

4. 2 Corinthians 2:12
[ Ministers of the New Covenant ] Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me,
 
5. 2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantâ014not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
 
6. 2 Corinthians 3:7
[ The Glory of the New Covenant ] Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was,
 
7. Hebrews 8:1
[ The High Priest of a New Covenant ] The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
 
8. Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said : "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
 
9. Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
 
10. Hebrews 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritanceâ014now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
 
11. Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Hi GP13
 
Very interesting verses, but I'm still left with a question.
 
What IS the "New Covenant"? From these verses it appears to be one of the following...
 
1. Communion
2. Sacrifice
3. Something Else
 
So... what IS the "New Covenant" and/or what IS the "Old Covenant" that it replaced?
 
Cheers
IBIJ

This is why it is fruitless to attempt discussions with you, and now your "wife." Pardon me if I offend you here, but boy, are you dense when it comes to some things in scripture! How many verses just got supplied and what do you post up on this board? Why don't you just stop playing stupid and join in the discussion and actually participate? Of course, if you actually do not know what new Covenant Christ brought to us, then that explains an awful lot!
 
~JEBUS

IBIJ2,
 
Of course these verses prove my point. In further support of my original post, let's check out Matthew 10:28. "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Now, what are we to make of that statement by Christ? Should I suddenly try to reinterpret His own statement and create something else entirely? I do not think so. You can, if you wish. I am not. So obviously in this verse Our Lord said plainly that there is the body and there is the soul in each of us. Each is capable of being killed. I guess there can be separation of body and soul, eh?
 
I am thinking outside of YOUR box, how about you? Are you willing to go out there? As for your continuing confusion over how we are to be joined with our glorified new bodies, stop assuming that we must be rekilled and back in the ground. That is silliness, truly. I do not try to claim that all of this concept is etched in stone. I merely state that our souls are separate from our bodies, that upon our physical death there is separation. Now, do our souls go down to hades and reside in paradise there until the rapture, or do our souls go to be with Christ until the rapture? That I cannot give you a definite answer to for God left us with enough gray area to possibly prevent us from concluding a final doctrine on it. But for anyone to declare that our soul is our physical body is ignoring scripture, especially right there in Matthew 10:28.
 
Enjoy, JEBUS

Hi Jebus
 
I thought we weren't talking on this forum. Or was it your just supposed to talk to me without a reply from me?
 
From the verses provided I do not see any specifically outlined "new covenant". Please tell me what I'm missing or fill free to continue insulting me as your way of not being able to answer the question.
 
What I want to know is what "NEW COVENANT" and if it's new then what was the "OLD COVENANT" that it replaced.
 
Consider me dense if you wish, but I really do need this spelled out.
 
Cheers
IBIJ

Hi JEBUS
 
When you are not clear as to what the convent is how can we assume for different beliefs believe differently so if people are to be on the same page to communicate communication needs to be clear with out religiouse terms getting in the way and assuming that everyone should know what it means.
 
You have many veralbes and not to speak clearly leads to mistakes misunderstands.
 
There are many convents in the Bible so really asking which one are you speaking of should be expected when one doesn't identify which one. Many between God and speific people, groups of people, and those that follow Him. Then there are convents between people, and nations in the bible.
 
So which convents are you talking about and what are the details of those convents?
 
IBIJ2

Hi Jebus
 
Then how do we appear from the ground?
 
The devil is the only one that kills both the body and the soul man can kill us but he can not take away enternal life but the devil can that is the difference. This still doesn't get us to heaven and back to be rasied at the trumpet out of the ground.
 
I will tell you what - this is really simple but can go in length as a very long Bible study so would you be willing to look together at every text in the Bible form Gensis to Revelation about body and soul, death, resirection, and Jesus return to take us home for it really all fits together. Do you have the time and willing to do this?
 
Do you have a strongs or a youngs concordance? This only list the word you are looking for and every text that has that word in it. We can also use Bible gateway to get many of the verses also. I do not know if that would be all as with the concordance
 
IBIJ 2

IBIJ
 
You asked, "What IS the New Covenant and/or What Is the Old Covenant that it replaced?"
 
For a Bible Scholar, that is the stupidest question I have ever heard.

grandpa13

Hi GP13
 
Interesting. I ask a simple question and get called names instead. I'd take that personally, except I'm beginning to think that's the best you got.
 
Whether I am a Bible scholar or not, it would seem that if I ask a simple question the result should be a simple answer unless, of course, there isn't one. Without an answer as of yet, I'm forced to conclude that their is no "New Covenant".
 
Which would you like to do?
1. Set me straight.
2. Call me more names.
The choice is yours.
 
Cheers
IBIJ
 
PS: Again, the question is what is the "New Covenant" and since it appears to be the new one what "Old Covenant" did it replace?
 

IBIJ
 
This is ridicules, you are just blowing smoke. I choose to not play your game anymore.
 
grandpa13